"Outside, there are chairs like inside."

Translation:Kint olyan székek vannak, amilyenek bent.

August 20, 2016

32 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlsEenPoffertje

Is it okay to use "mint" instead of "amilyenek" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/douglasDan354296

When is it proper to use "olyan" and when to use "olyanok?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

as far as i see, olyanok is plural from olyan. But immediately before plural nouns we say olyan, not olyanok. Anyway, let Hungarians correct me, if needed


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Yes, that's right. Olyan works just like any other adjective: always singular when in front of a noun and can only be plural when it's on its own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/douglasDan354296

That makes sense. Somehow I was not thinking of it as an adjective. But it is. Thanks to both of you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard604037

Many thanks RyagonIV because we have a bit of explanation now. Working from your use of the word, "such" (or possibly suchlike?) I interpret the sentence to mean that the chairs that are outside look like the ones inside. In other words, the sentence goes beyond making the point that chairs are to be found in both locations. It is saying that the chairs are also very similar. Is that right because, if it is, I can now see the need for olyan. If I said kint székek vannak mint bent, I think I'm saying merely that there are chairs in both locations but that there is nothing else to connect them. Again, is that right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Yes, the Hungarian sentence expresses that the chairs outside and the chairs inside are of the same type. Olyan is the answer to the question milyen?, talking about the type of an object.

Your second claim is also correct. Your sentence basically says "There are chairs outside, and also inside." The chairs don't necessarily have anything in common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWeber786406

I need to look outside Duolingo to figure this section out.
I got burned with Kint székek vannak olyanok, amilyenek bent.
I'm flying blind in this section - no Tips, no clue!
Directional Conjunction 3 actually makes more sense than this does!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sotech1

Your sentence is perfect (with a comma after "vannak"), but this language is in beta phase, so the lessons don't contain every right answer. Next time report it, help them. :)
Kint székek vannak, olyanok, amilyenek bent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dvanclev

Is olyan modifying kint or székek here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Olyan refers to székek: there are "such chairs" outside. That's also why amilyen is plural here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackMyer

why not "...szekek vannak olyanok..."? Am having trouble with word order


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Olyan works as an adjective for székek, so it has to go in front of it: "olyan székek" - "such chairs" or "that kind of chairs".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPotter87

Ok, enough. This sentence is incredibly confusing as it is, the English version has an incredibly vague meaning and I generally would have gotten it right by pure accident. However!!! Why the hell in god's name did you people put an option "olyanek" when the right one is "olyan"?!...... I got everything else right, but was rejected because of this!!!! How horribly frustrating do you think this is?!..... This is not an easy sentence, ok! It's not! You should immediately remove such deliberately confusing options! Also have the hints be adjusted to be more helpful and keep in mind that people who learn use the word bank!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPotter87

Also, I'm not arguing that "olyan" is the right answer, apparently it is. I have no idea why, of course, but it seems to be and I have to accept it. But in such cases and when people are learning new information, it's abysmally wrong to put a trap like "olyan/olyanek" here... It just is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPotter87

Regardless of everything, why "olyan" and not "olyanek". Székek is plural. Shouldn't "olyanek" which is also plural be used here. Doesn't it describe "székek"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fdn2WKq1

The only time you make an adjective plural in Hungarian is when it would be the object in English. Example:

The chairs are red = Pirosak a székek.

The way this sentence is constructed would be more like:

There are red chairs = Piros székek vannak.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPotter87

Ok, but what do adjectives have to do with this? Is olyan an adjective?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fdn2WKq1

I think the best classification would be adjective here, though I suppose it might be classified as a definite article. ("Olyan" is often also used as an adverb--e.g. "olyan nagy".)

Am I correct in understanding that your issue here is why "olyan" is singular, but in a similar situation, "azok" would be plural?

I don't know a better answer other than to say that in my conversational and reading experience, this is how it is used. (I am a non-native, former Hungarian resident.)

To me it seems that "azok/ezek" and their derivatives are the exception (the only adjectives/articles made plural in this situation), but that may be because they are definite articles, while "olyan" is not. I cannot think of any words other than "azok/ezek" and their derivatives that would be plural in this setting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fdn2WKq1

Please see my comment above. This is just a bad exercise--the English and Hungarian do not really match.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

Does olyan have any declination or plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Sure, it's a pronoun, so you can do pretty much anything with it that you can do with nouns, too: olyanok, olyant, olyanban and so on. You can check many forms in the "Declension" part of the Wiktionary article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

Wow, thank you for the link! But now I have even more questions :) As far as I understand, olyan and ilyen are answers for question milyen? But what is the difference between them? Moreover, in Ilyen article they give an example: Ilyen ember nincs is. ― There is no such man. What it the role of is here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Ilyen and olyan have the same relationship as other such pairs, like itt/ott (here/there), or így/úgy (like this/like that). English only has "such" as a simple translation for both ilyen and olyan, but you can think something like "this kind of (thing)", and "that kind of (thing)". Milyen then means "what kind of (thing)?"

So "Ilyen ember nincs is" more literally means "This kind of person doesn't exist". As far as I can see, the is there doesn't do a lot, grammatically. You could leave it out. Using is in a negative construction like this makes it enhance the negation a bit more - there really are no people like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

I hardly understand how to choose between olyan and ilyen. Azok az ablakok olyan vannak, amilyen azok a házamban. 1. Is it a correct sentence? 2. When would I use ilyen here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

You want to say something like "Those windows are like those in my house", right? It needs a few changes.

Azok az ablakok olyanok, amilyenek azok a házamban.

"Those windows are that kind of (multiple objects), which kind are those in my house." It's a bit hard to operate with milyen and friends in English, but I hope you get the gist. You're talking about multiple windows and you're saying "those windows are such", so the "such" needs to be plural, too. And the same happens in the relative clause.

I wouldn't use ilyen in this sentence, just because it's a relative sentence. You remember that the relative sentences in this course are always of the form "az..., amelyik..." and similar, but never "ez..., amelyik..." Or they have the form "ott..., ahol..." and not "itt..., ahol..." If you have a relative sentence, you most always use the "more distant" word to mark your relative subject. So you're always going to say "olyan..., amilyen..." in this kind of sentences.

Ilyen gets used in other circumstances, for instance when the dialogue has been about a certain kind of [things]. An example:

"Csak egy hülye erről a szikláról ugorna le a tóba."
"Láttam ilyen emberek."

"Only an idiot would jump from this rock down into the lake."
"I have seen this kind of people."

Here you would choose ilyen over olyan, because the kind of people has just been talked about. But you could also use olyan here to distance yourself from "that kind of people".

Or something simpler:

"Ilyen széket szeretem."

"I like this kind of chair."

Using ilyen because it's right there in front of you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

@RyagonIV thank you, köszönöm szépen!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kmargittai

I put vannak right after kint. I figured the focus was outside vs. inside. Is that totally wrong or just awkward. Kint vannak olyan székek, amilyenek bent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gabor111594

Kint vannak olyan székek amilyenek bent. I wrote this too and it was not accepted. I totally agree with kmargittai, and I think it should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fdn2WKq1

I think the translation here is poor. Assuming that the Hungarian is what we want, a better English translation would be:

"There are chairs outside like the ones inside."

The English, as it is, could translate to Hungarian as

"Kint székek vannak, amint bent."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cesarella1

why can we use vannak being 3rd plural of the verb to be? because of kint and bent, place adverbs?

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