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"Outside, there are chairs like inside."

Translation:Kint olyan székek vannak, amilyenek bent.

August 20, 2016

14 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlsEenPoffertje

Is it okay to use "mint" instead of "amilyenek" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dvanclev

Is olyan modifying kint or székek here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Olyan refers to székek: there are "such chairs" outside. That's also why amilyen is plural here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

Does olyan have any declination or plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Sure, it's a pronoun, so you can do pretty much anything with it that you can do with nouns, too: olyanok, olyant, olyanban and so on. You can check many forms in the "Declension" part of the Wiktionary article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/douglasDan354296

When is it proper to use "olyan" and when to use "olyanok?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard604037

Many thanks RyagonIV because we have a bit of explanation now. Working from your use of the word, "such" (or possibly suchlike?) I interpret the sentence to mean that the chairs that are outside look like the ones inside. In other words, the sentence goes beyond making the point that chairs are to be found in both locations. It is saying that the chairs are also very similar. Is that right because, if it is, I can now see the need for olyan. If I said kint székek vannak mint bent, I think I'm saying merely that there are chairs in both locations but that there is nothing else to connect them. Again, is that right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Yes, the Hungarian sentence expresses that the chairs outside and the chairs inside are of the same type. Olyan is the answer to the question milyen?, talking about the type of an object.

Your second claim is also correct. Your sentence basically says "There are chairs outside, and also inside." The chairs don't necessarily have anything in common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWeber786406

I need to look outside Duolingo to figure this section out.
I got burned with Kint székek vannak olyanok, amilyenek bent.
I'm flying blind in this section - no Tips, no clue!
Directional Conjunction 3 actually makes more sense than this does!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kmargittai

I put vannak right after kint. I figured the focus was outside vs. inside. Is that totally wrong or just awkward. Kint vannak olyan székek, amilyenek bent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWeber786406

I don't have a clue on this section at all - when do I use mint vs amilyenek? No tips, no clue!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fdn2WKq1

I think the translation here is poor. Assuming that the Hungarian is what we want, a better English translation would be:

"There are chairs outside like the ones inside."

The English, as it is, could translate to Hungarian as

"Kint székek vannak, amint bent."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fdn2WKq1

RyangonIV's comments are very helpful. However, I think there are two other points that would help as well.

(I say this as a native English speaker who, some years ago lived in Hungary and am using Duolingo to brush-up on the language.)

  1. "This"-type words all use front vowels (e/é/i/í/ö/ő/ü/ű):

Ez = this így = like this (verbs) ilyen = like this (adjectives) itt = here innen = from here and the related ebbe, ebben ebből, etc.

"That"-type words all use back vowels (a/á/o/ó/u/ú and sometimes é,i).

az = that úgy = like that (verbs) olyan = like that (adjectives) ott = there onnan = from there etc.

  1. Directional conjugation in English and Hungarian use this and that in the opposite way. (Long explanation below.)

This- and that-type words often translate similarly between English and Hungarian, with a sense that "this" is often a thing here and "that" is often a thing there.

However, directional conjugation is different: In English, antecedents are typically this-type words, while in Hungarian, antecedents are that-type words.

Note that Hungarian uses this sort of construction a lot more frequently than English does.

Typically, "olyan" is used in the first part of the sentence to look forward to the second part (an antecedent), whereas the ileyn, embedded in "amilyen" refers back specifically to the previous "olyan".

So in this case, when we say "Olyan szekek vannak" = those kinds of chairs

amilyenek = the same kind as the "olyan" in the first part of the sentence.

I went back looking for examples we have already used. In the explanation for "Directional Conjugation 2" I found this one:

Abból eszem, amin nincs kép.

The translation given there is "I eat from that on which there is no picture."

I don't like this translation as a teaching example, not because the translation is wrong, but I find it misleading.

My native-English brain says that what the Hungarian is really saying is:

Abból eszem
= I eat from this thing amin
= thing on which (referring back to the az in abból) nincs kép = there is no picture.

For the present lesson "olyan" and "amilyen/ek" take the place of "Abból" and "amin", but it is the same pattern of that/this in Hungarian, but this/that in English, if we use this type of construction in English.

Another example which is fairly common in colloquial speech:

English: "This is what I said: "

Hungarian: "Azt mondtam, hogy "

Similarly, if someone says something that I already said I would say:

English: I said that. Hungarian: Ezt mondtam.

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