Tree 2.0 news [updated: April 2018]
April 17, 2018: There's a new Progress Update on our Incubator course page. We'll paste it below for your convenience.
Welcome to the first Progress Update of 2018. Slowly but surely, Tree 2.0 is filling up with golden skill icons.
In the last months, we've finished 22 lessons in 4 skills:
- Locative 1
- Numbers 1
- Verbs of Motion
- Locative 2
Developing Verbs of Motion skill took up a huge chunk of our time, and with good reason — it's one of the most complex aspects of Polish grammar. Our goal in designing the lessons and creating individual exercises was to give you as much context as possible. We hope the way we approached it will make it much easier to process and understand.
Numbers 1 is yet another skill that has changed a lot since Tree 1.0. Polish numbers tend to decline in their very own way, so we've decided to split the entire subject of cardinal and ordinal numerals into several skills. The Numbers 1 skill introduces the numbers 1-100 in the nominative and accusative case—other cases will be taught in subsequent skills.
We're slowly getting to the most interesting parts of the tree. For now, our focus is to finish teaching the basics of the locative case (last but one!) while introducing useful vocabulary related to household items and various locations. We'll also be working on the first Abstract Nouns skill, as well as the skill devoted to ordinal numbers.
It's been over three months since we've last updated you on our progress in developing Tree 2.0, which means it's time for 2017's last quarterly Progress Update.
Since August, we've developed 32 lessons in 9 new skills. Here are the working titles:
- Adjectives 3
- Genitive 3
- Pronouns 2
- Modal & Infinitive
- Question Words
As you can probably guess, it all makes for a pretty grammar-heavy section. Sooner or later, it'll introduce you to Polish reflexives and infinitives and teach you a ton of useful function words.
We've also managed to slip in a really fun Eating skill, which will teach you some of the most important Polish nouns ;) And we've finished introducing the genitive and vocative cases – only two more to go!
Next up is the locative case – in fact, we're working on it as we speak. By the time we release our next quarterly update, we hope to have introduced verbs of motion, some basic numbers, and new vocabulary topics.
We're aiming for a more gradual introduction of particularly complex topics. For example, numbers are going to be spread over as many as five skills. After all, there are dozens upon dozens of forms to be learned if you want to use them correctly in various grammatical contexts, so we'd like to give you ample opportunity to learn and practice each one of them.
Similarly, we've taken special care to provide you with more helpful context when teaching verbs of motion, one of the trickier areas of the Polish language. We hope all this will make it easier to understand even the most challenging grammar topics.
One more thing: Say hello to Trofaste, who has joined our team as a contributor, moderator, and a native English expert. She's already proven invaluable in polishing our English translations and testing the new tree from the perspective of a learner.
Cheers! Team Polish
It's time for another quasi-quarterly Progress Update. We're still here, working every day to make Tree 2.0 the best Polish course in the observable universe.
We're almost done introducing the Genitive case, which has been spread across several skills to make it easier to understand and practice. We'll be now moving on to the Locative, which will get several dedicated skills as well. So if you ever felt like it was difficult to keep up with all those new cases, we've got good news for you. In the new tree, you'll be given much more “learning space” to get used to the new cases before the course starts throwing new concepts at you.
In other news: we've introduced some basic adverbs a few skills ago, and they have proven really useful so far. We've also worked on a few “pure vocabulary” lessons introducing new verbs, nouns (plenty of occupation names) and adjectives (colors and other everyday stuff), so we've pretty much got you covered on all fronts.
A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a screenshot.
That's how a sapling of Tree 2.0 looks in July 2017. Note that some minor things are bound to change in this section when the tree is ultimately released, particularly the skill titles.
Now, let's revisit a question that has hovered over Tree 2.0 since we first started working on it in summer 2016: when is it going to be released?
With each day, it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no way the new tree could be completed in 2017. Our (unofficial) goal is to release it at some point in 2018, but this date is meant to motivate ourselves to work even harder, rather than set up some legitimate expectations in the community.
Remember: this is different to when we were working on Tree 1.0. Back then, we strove to make the course available as soon as possible, since there were so many people anxiously waiting to start learning Polish.
Since we are determined to make Tree 2.0 a superior iteration of our course, we are not going to compromise to meet some arbitrary deadline. We have many great ideas for the new tree that are yet to be implemented, and we will do our best to realize as many of them as possible. We'll try to keep you posted on the progress.
Last but not least, we'd like to use this opportunity to welcome Okcydent, who has recently joined our amazing forum moderator team!
Stay tuned for another update in a couple of months.
We have started developing the mighty Tree 2.0!
This has been our plan for quite a long time. The current tree can give you a pretty good idea of how Polish works, but there are some parts that we would like to improve or expand.
Developing and maintaining the first iteration of the skill tree has taught us a lot of things – things we wish we knew right from the very start. To put them into practice, we have to sit down and reconsider the entire tree.
Many skills will be added, expanded or moved. Words that are taught too early or too late will be put where they belong. Concepts that may seem a bit unclear will be introduced in a smoother and more orderly fashion. Unimaginative or convoluted sentences will be replaced with more natural and communicative ones. Topics which were a bit neglected (Polish cuisine anyone?) will finally get the attention they deserve.
The overarching goal is to enable you, learners, to steer through the intricacies of the Polish language without investing more effort than is necessary. Of course, some effort will still be required – let's face it, Polish is not an easy language.
We want you to get an intuitive feel of how the language works without diving too deep into the underlying rules. And we want you to do that by working with sentences that are somehow useful in everyday communication. The beginnings might still be a little bit dull – it is hard to compose thrilling sentences when you are barely able to use 3 of the 7 cases – but they should do a fine job of gently leading you towards basic communicative competence.
And yes, there will be Tips & Notes. Ideally, they will cover much more ground that they do right now. We decided to stop developing them for the current version of the tree, as they would be rendered useless by the many changes made to Tree 2.0. Naturally, we will continue to support the current tree. While there will be no new exercises added to the current version, we will still be going through your reports and trying to squash all these pesky bugs.
We do realize that it all sounds very ambitious. We may not be able to achieve each and every goal we set for ourselves. Still, we believe Tree 2.0 will be a significant improvement over the current tree. If it's not – well, there's always Tree 3.0 :)
Tell us what you think, especially if you have some suggestions after using the current Tree.
Is there any grammatical concept that's giving you nightmares?
Is there any part of the course that made you feel overwhelmed?
Is there any vocabulary topic that should get more love in 2.0?
This is wonderful news, thanks so much for undertaking this huge project.
I have really enjoyed doing the Polish tree. I am now settling down to the more difficult task of going back through it and really learning it. From my point of view I would like to see as much vocabulary as possible crammed in there as I find duolingo by far the easiest place to learn it and to get listening practice for it as well. It would be great if you could include as many of the most frequently used words as possible. I would also like to see the most common words in all their case forms so as to get a real feel for them. Including sentences with the same words but in different cases would be good, so changing just who does what to who for who with what etc and with changes of tense too. I haven't missed the tips and notes at all as I find it much better to learn them by expecting them from familiarity. The sentence forums have done a good job of answering most queries I have had.
One thing I find tricky is telling verbs apart so exercises which help distinguish similiarly spelled ones would be most welcome as well as more on verbs of motion and aspect. Verbs in generał are a tricky area. I really haven't much idea how to predict which form is needed when as of yet, although further review may help.
Hooray - let me know if you need any alpha testing! God knows I file dozens of comments and reports a week as is... :P
I really, really would like to see each case have a separate skill (with multiple lessons), and to be able to go over them in various uses as well as various gender endings. They could serve as ways to introduce new vocabulary, as well - for example, introducing place words in the Locative lesson.
By far the biggest overhaul needs to be in numbers - I do not even BEGIN to understand how to conjugate them, or even how to form compound numbers! From the course, I can only count from one to one hundred, and only in the nominative case.
I agree, a more thorough explanation of the number system is needed.
Also, a separate skill which focuses on perfective and imperfective pairings with a mixture of their uses to really test whether they are understood. If you are doing the perfective skill, you know that the required verb is going to be perfective without challenging yourself to understand why.
Thanks for all your efforts and these great news. I would love to have more grammar explanations, especially something that allows to learn the cases word endings systematically.
Thank you for this undertaking. Your hard work is much appreciated! One suggestion is to have more lessons that help understand when to use imperfective verbs vs. perfective verbs in the past tense.
One grammar concept I would really like to see in the new tree is an explanation of which case to use after which numbers—I had to search really hard online to find that information when I went through the course. It isn't enough to know the numbers if you can't use them correctly in a sentence! :)
Suggestion regarding bonus skills:
It seems that most courses have Idioms, Christmas, and Flirting. That's fine but I would strongly suggest making some more Polish-specific bonus skills to give the course some flavor and make it more unique. For example, apparently the Irish team will be adding bonus skills like "Mythology" and "Irish Places" (to teach the major counties and cities). Apparently they are developing 8 bonus skills for the Irish course so you shouldn't feel limited by the typical three that other courses have. I'm sure you guys will think of plenty of ideas!
Why not add Polish cuisine, proverbs, special holidays and more as potential bonus skills too :)
Yay! Good luck team, I enjoyed doing the Polish tree but if I hadn't been a native speaker of Russian, I imagine it would be much harder! Tips and Notes would be very welcome! Keep up the awesome work and thank you for making the Polish tree.
Vocab topic that needs more love: Noun cases! definitely noun cases. An idioms section would be nice, some common collocations in Polish.
I am pretty sure I only made it through the tree based on my non-native (but formerly fluent, if rather rusty) knowledge of Russian. And even then, there were a few skills where I was going on luck and guesswork. (I'm still slightly baffled by the Polish past tense, and I'm constantly getting stuff marked as typos which is less a typo and more me being totally clueless what's happening...)
Slavic languages have strong similarities. Knowing one well is like having a cheat sheet for the next.
Some of them are closer than others - Russian helped me a lot with Ukrainian, and less (but still very helpful) with Polish, but in my experience (the Slavic languages here plus some Croatian at uni and part of the Czech reverse tree), any one is helpful to some extent with the next.
I didn't now they were in the same family as Russian. I thought with using different alphabet and all Russian was in a different category. Is Albanian in this category, and do all the languages in this family declinate things into oblivion?
I find it really interesting to see how different language families relate to each other. The Slavic languages are a branch of the Indo-European language family. Have a look at these:
They are both Slavic languages so they have a lot of similarities in grammar and vocabulary.
Thank you for all of your hard work! I'd love to see a greater emphasis on learning to decline nouns. As you noted above, expanding the notes would also be very helpful. I'm looking forward to 2.0! Thanks again.
Once I have finished working through the current Polish course, I am quite looking forward to being able to continue learning!! Dziękuję bardzo serdecznie! :)
Here are some ideas: - comparing or matching perfective, with imperfective verbs - some are "easy" because they have the same root word obviously, whereas some are not so easy to see. (I hope I used the correct term! :) ) It can also be tricky to choose which verb should be used (the perfective vs. imperf.) so maybe more examples choosing these?
I really appreciated the articles in the first few levels - maybe like some have suggested, using tips that were already shared in this course more information could be shared during some of the further levels - rather than really not having an idea of "why" it is a certain way.
- Spiritual vocabulary for example; faith, love, hope, wisdom, Jesus, God, peace, righteous/ness, joy, forgiveness, eternal, grace, mercy, truth, heaven, hell, sin, goodness, holy, grave, cross, prayer, .... etc. It always seems this vocabulary is missing from every course I've ever taken - it would be great to have some practice in this type of thing also.
Even though I am a hardened atheist I am cautiously agreeing with you, since the Polish are such a religious people... So it is good to have some 'bare bones' understanding I guess, to understand what's being discussed.
There is one area that seems a little deficient not just here but in all the courses I've tried - food. You are not likely to see on a menu simply "beef", "chicken" or "broccoli", more likely are "stewed beef with root vegetables", "breaded chicken with dill" or "mixed seasonal vegetables" and then there are the Polish specialties : pierogi, gołąbki, barszcz etc. It would be helpful to have more food as it would really be on a menu.
Tips in the 2.0 tree I think should be added:
The case system! I only understand parts of the nominative and genitive cases after doing additional research. I think there should be a lesson of each case somewhere. Where? No idea.
Bonus skills. I think idioms will be very difficult for the people, but better to have them. Christmas and flirting skills to go along with it.
Pronunciation. The speaker speaks like she has a stuffy nose (sorry if the robot actually has a cold.) Maybe a section of just tips and notes for the pronunciation with native audio clips to help.
What overwhelms me the most is the rapid unstrengthening of the tree. That is inevitable. The most after that for me is the loads of vocabulary I have no idea how to spell or say. I don't know how to say "friend" in Polish. Something like "przy------". Maybe lessons on spelling, if that's even possible?
I hope all goes well with the Polish tree. I would love to help, ale nie mówię biegle po Polsku!
I find that the best way to practice spelling is to make up scrabble like tiles in Polish, and then using flashcards, have the English side up, then try and spell it using the tiles. Then, flip the Flashcard over, and correct your mistakes. This way, you don't go through a lot of paper. Another idea is to get a website where you can toss up the wordfind program that is open source, and allows you to add your own words. This way, you can add your polish vocabulary words. I think they have a Polish alphabet in there. I forget the name of the program. I used to have it a long time ago.
Sending much miłość your way team!! I am loving this current tree and immensely thankful for what you guys have done thus far. The fact that you guys are committed to rolling out and even better tree is blowing my mind!! I am working my way through it and hoping to finish it in the next few months. (I had hoped to conquer it in time for my Poland trip but I fell short of that goal. Alas! I'll just have to go again when it's done ;) ) Thank you again, you guys are my heroes!!
Poprawcie flagę jaką nosi Duo na szyi. W innych kursach jest to normalna flaga "zwężona" tak by się mieściła pod szyją. Polska nie dość, że jest horyzontalnie to jeszcze kolory są odwrotnie, czerwono-biała zamiast biało-czerwonej (czytamy od lewej do prawej).
This is wonderful! Thanks Jellei for your work on this! The more Tips the better would be my main suggestion - take that wonderful content in the "useful Polish Duo discussions" and integrate it into the Tips for each section. One small suggestion: on the mobile app, remove word choices like Acc and Nom, etc. which are obviously not potential choices for a translation. And on the mobile app consider not capitalizing the first word of the sentence - that's a real giveaway!
I am looking forward to the new tree! One thing I noticed is that there is quite some grammar introduced late in the tree. At least, it feels like more than in the beginning. However, because it keeps adding, there are less opportunities to have quite some practice with it as there is a new topic constantly.
It may be nice to include some pure vocabulary lessons at the end of the tree, so you learn new words and you get more practice with the grammar introduced earlier. For example in the German course; at least, based on the names of the lessons, I didn't do it myself.
Can't wait to see it! :)
I would like to suggest using more verbs---to expand the learner's vocabulary.
As feedback, I've seen many courses on Polish from different books, and a common ground for all of them is that they separate the lessons by cases. So the 3 first lessons teach to introduce oneself plus instrumental. The next 3 lessons are about clothing and accusative. The next 3 lessons are about food and genetive... and so on. Of course the point of Duolingo is to be an immersive method, not full of grammar, but being Polish a case-based langugage I think it would be very helpful to separate it by cases. Maybe the beginning of the tree could be the basics and then go more in-deep with the cases one by one. Other subjects that would be useful to add to the tree: Countries and nationality Hobbies People descrption (hair, eye color, height...) More food vocabulary (maybe restaurant interactions) More places (plus locative case) Hours (plus locative case)
I can say that the Tree 2.0 will indeed focus heavily on grammar and introduce it in a way that will (hopefully) leave very little place for any doubt. Cases will be introduced slowly and carefully.
Can you add Polish slang, as a bonus skill? Bo ja nie mogę gdy Polacy używają slangu rozmawiając że mną.
Great to know that the Polish team is here to help us improve! I am sure things must be getting close to done, but here are some suggestions I have if it's not too late:
Teach the translations of grammar terms, "accusative," "present perfective," "modal," etc to polish. It makes it a lot easier to use references if you can understand what "Tryb przypuszczający" means. Even stuff like "kropka" and "ogonek" would be helpful.
Add the required case to hints for translating English to Polish. E.g. "during" hint would be "podczas + dop/gen.", "with" as "z + nar/inst.", "o + bier/acc" etc.
Add the case to hints for translating Polish to English. E.g. "dziewczyną" to "girl (Loc.)"
Please please please add some basic conversation examples! Any kind of common small talk would be amazing. I assume when two people meet one says "Jak się masz?", the other replies "Dobrze, dziękuję." and they continue the rest of their time together in total silence because there is no natural way to transition to "on dotyka każdej lodówki" or whatever Polish people seem to say a lot. (Note: I do love the sillier sentences, they help with remembering trickier words.)
Add lots of bonus skills that teach about Polish culture. When you understand the culture, you understand the language better. Food, idioms and flirting are great starts, here are some other suggestions: - Fairy tales (Baba Yaga, other books read to children) - History (WWII, knights riding horses, the Polish national anthem, whatever) - Government of Poland - Polish geography (provinces, landmarks, rivers, major cities) - Common sayings and their uses ("Na zdrowie!)
Tables of showing conjugation of important verbs (modals, byc) for different tenses/moods and subjects. This would probably only be possible as a reference, but filling out a table could be a great exercise too. We had to do this over and over when I was learning German in school, and it all comes naturally to me now.
Can't wait to see how the new tree turns out!
Thank you for this great comment! We will discuss all your suggestion thoroughly, although I'm afraid that some of them aren't really possible.
Just wondering if there are any new updates on Polish Tree 2.0? It's been a few months and we'd love to hear from you! :)
The forum system has buttons for up-voting and down-voting. The little arrows under each post are for that purpose, so that we don't have to make new comments saying "+1".
Hello team, happy 2019! :) Any updates on Polish Tree 2.0? It's been a while...
Awesome! I just signed up for the Polish course, but I want to finish some of the other trees I have lined up before that (English from Italian, English from Portuguese, English From Hungarian, Hungarian From English, German From English, and English From German), so this will give me time finish some of those trees before the new one comes out (and if Greek comes out before that, I want to do the Greek From English and English From Greek trees!),
Gratulację! Bardzo się cieszy na ten nowszy kurs! (I have no idea how to say "updated course" in Polish) :) Przepraszam.
You wrote this almost perfect, I would have correct this just a little bit:
"Gratulacje! Bardzo się cieszę na ten nowszy kurs!" or
"Gratulacje! Bardzo się cieszę z tego nowego kursu!"
updated course - "zaktualizowany (or poprawiony or ulepszony) kurs" but "poprawiony" or "ulepszony" means also "improved" or "made better"
Your sentence could be also written as:
"Gratulacje! Bardzo się cieszę na ten zaktualizowany kurs!" or
"Gratulacje! Bardzo się cieszę na ten wkrótce zaktualizowany kurs!" or
"Gratulacje! Bardzo się cieszę na ten wkrótce dostępny, zaktualizowany kurs!" or
"Gratulacje! Bardzo się cieszę, że ten kurs będzie ulepszony i nie mogę się go doczekać!
In every above sentence "zaktualizowany" can be replaced with "ulepszony" or "poprawiony" and the meaning is exactly the same.
That said, the original sentence is perfectly understandable and clear. No reason for apologies.
Good luck with your studies! Powodzenia w dalszej nauce języka!
Kuchnia polska!!! Please add sections on cuisine!
I want to learn more communicative verbs and phrases used in conversation. I think it would help if the imperative sections were more extensive and included imperative forms of many of the verbs included towards the beginning of the tree. Household objects are handled very well, but I would like to see them included as objects of prepositions so that we get more practice seeing how they change forms in different cases.
In the tips and notes, information about the case system and how it is used uniquely in Polish would be very helpful.
For nightmarish grammatical concepts, the participles and gerunds lesson is literally a guessing game for me right now. For the new tree, maybe introduce more adverbs and the like and cover the locative, dative vocative cases a bit more. Also, the numbers in their different cases and usages might need a bit more fleshing out.
Mam następny pomysł. (I have another idea)
How about we do more office/school vocabulary? For example: printer fax machine paper shredder crayons erasers pencil sharpener blackboard/whiteboard chalk shape triangle square circle rectangle
And some verbs, as well to shred/rip paper to print to take notes to write something down to erase to sharpen (pencils) to add to subtract to multiply to divide
Well, I must say that right now there are no tips anymore from some point own no further explanation of cases no further explanation on verbs etc. I thought is this course still in beta? No does not seem to be so and then I saw this and thought well it kinda is a beta!
I really felt lost…
Are there any plans to have spoken exercises in the new tree like there are in other langauges? It is helpful to hear Polish spoken but without speaking exercises it is difficult to know whether one would be intelligible to a native.
But I am really enjoying learning Polish and many thanks to all those who have contributed to the development of the Polish tree.
As far as I know that's not up to the Polish contributors but rather the Duolingo team. And I wouldn't hold your breath; I don't think they've added speaking exercises to any courses since the initial four (Spanish, German, French, and Italian I think?).
What I like to do is just repeat the sentences out loud to myself after the audio plays. Honestly in my experience with the Spanish and German courses the audio recognition is pretty bad anyways so it's not a good metric by which to measure your pronunciation.
"Trzymajcie kciuki" is the exakt same expression as is used in Swedish: "Håll tummarna"
I would like to see lessons that go more in depth about each case. I studied polish for a while and did not pick up any knowledge of how the cases work. Also just good, in depth tips and notes sections for all lessons that involve new complex grammar. Thanks!
My biggest problem is cases. Figuring out what case something would be in and remembering the ending to use can get frustrating. Probably the easiest way I see to solve that would be to introduce a bunch of words and keep them nominative. Then move on to using those same words in different cases in the following lessons. That would help getting a grasp on when something would be a certain case and how that case ends.
First of all thanks for all your efforts!
Sometimes the text-to-speech voice is strange. E.g. "psa" or "Julia" are spoken as ps-a / J-ulia, which can be confusing if you don't know the correct pronunciation.
So I wonder if it would be possible to use another, better voice in the future instead of this one?
I certainly hope so, because a big number of reports is about bad audio. We will see in the future, when everything else will be ready.
"they" = the Duolingo company or "they" = the Polish team? If you mean the other, we'd love that, but that doesn't seem that probable, I think I've even seen the CEO write about the problems that it causes (mostly because of lack of slow audio).
If you mean Duolingo, do you have any source on that? That would sure be great.
The company wants to replace the robot in all languages with real people as they realized that the robot has issues. I read that somewheres, but forget which thread. And it was mentioned that this will take a long time to implement. However, www.forvo.com is what everyone in the know, uses to get authentic pronunciation of words in many different dialects from the same country that word is written in.
The article on the Duolingo Wiki says yes: http://duolingo.wikia.com/wiki/Esperanto_for_English
Duolingo uses TTS where they can, but for languages with no TTS, like Esperanto and Swahili, they have recordings done. It's a very time-consuming process, and in language courses without TTS the "tortoise" button doesn't work.
First let me thank you for your hard work. With duolingo I got a first impression of how the polish language sounds and works. Before I was not so interested in learning eastern europe languages, I prefered to learn romance or asian languages. But slowly I have fun reading, writing and speaking some polish and maybe I learn more and can speak freely in the future. Thank you for that.
You asked for opinions regarding the actual polish tree, here are my 2 cents:
Im am near finishing the actual polish tree. What drives me crazy is the grammatic. In German we only use 4 cases and often I don't understand the grammatical concept in polish.
One main problem of the actual tree is the lack of information, especially in the sections after the first one in the tree. There should be much more information about the grammatical issues. An example: byłem/byłam - there are often two answers correct and mostly I´ve understood why, but in this case I had to ask my polish girlfriend to know, why both are correct...ok, I could look in a textbook also ;-) but it would be helpful, if such information would be provided in the tree.
The learnding "points" concentrate on one or some grammatical issues (i. e. gender or time etc) and these issues should be explained shortly or if needed a bit more.
Often I get strange sentences to choose from, als "A fish is wearing a sweater". In this case, you can say, that the brain remembers such a sentence better than "A man wears a sweater", but in other cases, the system provides completely wrong sentences: wrong word order, wrong grammatic, wrong words, partially completely nonsense. If one learned good, he can recognize them to choose the correct or best answer. But there is a disadvantage in my eyes: Students often read wrong sentences, even more than correct sentences, so the learning process will be not so effective. I think, the system should only provide correct figured sentences.
When the system asks for numbers, dates and times, every time it follows the correct order in a row: 1, 2, 3/january, february ,march/spring, summer, fall and so on. So if you remember one vocab, you will know the others also. In my opinion, it would be more effective, if the vocabs in the questions would be disarranged, not in the correct order, i. e.: 3, 10, 1/December, June, November/fall, spring, winter and so on.
I think, there are too many repeats of already correct answered questions in one run. Not rarely I have been asked for easy sentences multiple times, although I answered them every time correctly. This is a waste of time in my eyes.
Ok, that's all for now.
I hope, I can finish the actual tree (I think within the next 30 days) before the new one gets online, so that I can compare my experience of the whole actual tree with the new tree 2.0 :-)
Two additional things:
The computer voice pronounces the questions often not clear, they sound like statements. If we ask a question in German, we raise the tone of the voice at the end of the question and a polish friend of mine told me, that it is the same in Polish.
In the excercises, where we have to choose words to bring them in a correct word order, the first letter of the first word in the sentence is nearly 100% written in capital letters. So you do not have to think about it, you do not have to know the vocab, just choose the word which begins with a capital letter for the first word in the sentence, then you can go on. It would be more difficult, but in my opinion better, if all words were written in lower letters.
That's how the app works. The puzzles are created from a sentence, and well, sentences start with a capital letter. We do not create the puzzle exercises separately, they are just our normal 'translate into English' sentences. Nothing we can do about it, apart from starting our sentences with lowercase letters - which rather doesn't make sense, as it's just wrong ;)
Yeah, I hope we can manage to get some better audio...
Thank you for your answer, Jelley. Ok, I understand the problem, but this could be managed by programming (lowering letters automatically by special conditions). The different punctiation marks are already skipped by the system (wich is indeed very comfortable), so this would also be possible.
On this small course on a German dictionary site
they provide correctly written sentences, but they mentioned, that all words in the boxes to choose from are written in lower letters, because the students could recognize the first word of any sentence too easily, which would not be the intention of these excercises.
So Duolingo should think about this issue, I am sure, there is a solution for that problem.
For the audio/computer voice: Yes, this would be good, but it is better than nothing now :-) During my excercises I learned a lot, although the pronunciation is often not so good.
By the way: My polish friend is irritated by the pronunciation of some prepositions (me too, at the beginning - now I am used to this, but it is still curious). I. e. if I choose a box with "w" the computer voice pronunce it "wo", which is not correct in a sentence. In don´t know: Beside the spelling the alphabet or a word, is there any case in Polish, where you pronunce "w" as "wo"? If yes, then this could be difficult to code. If not, why not program the computer voice, to pronunce it like it would be in an sentence?
Well, then it's a suggestion that you should make to Duolingo the company, and not any particular team of course creators :)
Yeah, in slow speech (so also reading words one-by-one) the TTS pronounces 1-letter prepositions as if it was reading the alphabet. I hope we will manage to somehow bypass that when recording audio for Tree 2.0.
About this „wo”. This is how Poles pronounce their alphabet - wu.
- Letter - pronunciation (Polish)
- a - a
- ą - ą
- b - be
- c - ce
- ć - ć/cie
- d - de
- e - e
- ę - ę
- f - ef
- g - gie
- h - ha
- i - i
- j - jot
- k - ka
- l - el
- ł - eł
- m - em
- n - en
- ń - ń/eń/ni
- o - o
- ó - u
- p - pe
- q - ku
- r - er
- s - es
- t - te
- u - u
- w - wu
- x - iks
- y - igrek
- z - zet
- ż - żet
- ź - ziet
Just to specify and answer potential questions:
u - u otwarte (open u)
ó - u kreskowane (refers to the accent) or u zamknięte (closed u)
v - fał (fau)
Thank you for clearing this up, Okcydent, sorry for my mistake. But this does not change the main problem, that the computer voice should pronunce the vocabs as they would be pronunced in a sentence.
Another suggestion: It would be great to have more hearing exercises to learn to distinguish one sound from another, similar sound.
For example I find it difficult to hear the difference between ś and sz like in wieś and wiesz. So the question could be "which of the following sounds do you hear?" and then some checkboxes to select the correct answer(s).
You don't need to know the meaning of the words for this type of questions (maybe it is even better if you don't, because the answer should be given from hearing the pronunciation of the word and not from knowing the word). So this could be one of the first skills of the learning tree. And you could get back to it later during the course when you think you need more practice.
Great news, I can't wait.I love Duolingo and am so grateful for it,Thankyou.Tips and notes as in the French course would be very welcome.Thanks again
Could somebody change the typo in the subject line for this post. I can't be the only person who cringes every time I get an update!
Discussion is interesting though :)
Hi everybody :) I wish I'm not too late First, I really want to thank you all for your job, I can only imagine how much patience you need to create a tree, answer to all our doubts (even several time to the same question) and keeping the course "in order" :). And, if I survived for four months in Poland, it's also thanks to you. If I may just add some suggetions (as a student of Polish in a polish city), I feel the need two develop two main topics: - Formal you: of course, a non-native student is not compelled to use it, and everybody will understand that they is still trying to do their best to speak a decent Polish in an informal way, but it would be nicer to sound a little more polite. Besides, 95 percent of Polish people will address us as Pan/Pani, and at the beginning it might be a little confusing. So I feel the need to get more used to the formal speech. - Dokonane and Niedokonane verbs: it's the worst aspect of Polish grammar, and it really needs a loooooooooooooooooooot of exercise, because, apart from knowing them, the differenc between D and N should sooner or later sound natural. Moreover (and somehow related), I really felt the need to know more synonyms for the same verbs (whenever I was pretty sure about one verb, I discovered dozens of different ways to say the same thing). But, still, I cannot but thank you serdeczne :)
Than you for the update! I am going finish Tree 1.0. Then do Tree 2.0 and then see if I can do English for Polish speakers!! Thank you for your hard work!!
I just finished the skill for prepositions. Is it possible when building this skill in Tree 2.0 you concentrate on only one case at a time, i.e. all the genitive preps together, all the accusative preps together, all the locative preps together. Also in the hints and tips section, please give us several examples of the ones that are confusing, i.e. blisko-obok-przy. As a German language teacher I know that prepositions are difficult to learn because there is rarely a one-to-one translation for the prepositions. They usually convey different meanings in the second language.
And thanks for working on Tree 2.0. I appreciate what we have with Tree 1.0. I can't imagine how many hours it takes you to program one skill let alone a section or the entire tree. I'm looking forward to it and am grateful for your work.
Suggestion: If possible can you please put the base form of the words in the definition when a mouse rolls over it. i.e. "Kiedy masz urodziny?" When I roll over "masz" it would be nice to see at the bottom of the list "infinitive=mieć". The verbs aren't driving me as crazy as the adjectives. I'll see an adjective that is used for feminine singular accusative and will then try to use it when the sentence requires masculine plural genitive. If adding it to the roll over isn't possible, can you address it in the tips and hints before the exercises. Thanks.
Hi everyone, Fist of all, nice job on the Polish course. I really enjoy revising my Polish every day. :-) Are there any updates on the way? After seeing the French and Spanish being treated with new content and vocab, I am jealous. :-D
Wonderful news. One suggestion I'd make is to not have "ten, eleven, twelve" as a sentence - if you get one, you get the other two automatically. "four, eighteen, twenty-nine" is better for this. Same with days and months.
I somewhat disagree with this: 'ten, eleven, twelve' is a useful sequence to hear repeatedly when practising; 'four, eighteen, twenty-nine' is not. It is harder to remember such abstract things as numbers if they don't appear in recognisable sequences (even children learning their native languages learn numbers in sequences), and of no use to the learner to have 'four, eighteen, twenty-nine' tripping off the tongue.
I see the points of both posters here. I agree about the value of hearing the counting sequence and that being easier to learn, but if every time the learner is only ever presented with a sequence, it foregoes an opportunity for a challenge - I myself always find the number sequence questions to be dead easy. After all, do you encounter numbers out of sequence very commonly in real life situations - addresses, phone numbers, etc.
I think I'd like to learn them sequentially but go to random numbers in strengthen.
Bym bardzo chciała, żeby Duolino dać więcej przyimek. (Mam nadzieję, że moje zdanie było poprawne) :)
większość podstawowych przyimków jest w kursie, jakich twoim zdaniem brakuje?
*bardzo bym chciała, żeby Duolingo dało więcej przyimków
Nie wiem dokładnie, czy już są były w kursie, ale, na przykład: obok, przez, zamiast, przy, około, przeciwko, podczas, wśród, mimo, ku, dzięki.
I dziękuję za poprawę gramatyczną.
JUST GIVE US MORE GRAMMAR AND TIPS&TRIPS.
I am not yelling, just want you to see that.
So you are yelling :) Anyway, I stand here yelling here with you :) (a friendly yell, mind you!)
Great news, but it's more of a "Pre-announcement" than an actual announcement.
Cześć! Is there any more news on when Tree 2.0 will be completed? I'm just about half way done with the current tree, so I'm in no hurry!
I apologize if this has been asked, but how will the conversion from Tree 1 to 2.0 go? Will I maintain the lessons that are completed, but have to do the new ones to get a gold tree again (assuming I reach that goal by the time the new tree is done), or will I need to start from a placement test?
I'm sure others have said this, but I would also love to see the Vocab list like there is for In House languages. I also love being able to spend lingots on extra lessons, like Idioms & Proverbs or Flirting, etc.. It could also be interesting to have cultural facts (not necessarily in Polish) that we could spend Lingots on!
I was surprised that there aren't discussions regarding the use of cases, etc., like there are within the Russian course (within the tree). I studied Polish for two years at uni to B1 level and wanted to take this course in order to expand on my knowledge. I always found it difficult to intrinsically distinguish between cases - being able to hover over words and familiarize myself with a word in genitive, instrumental, etc. helped improve my Polish immensely. I am a bit sad that it's ended where it has. I've just finished the tree but was hoping there would be more advanced Polish topics and added vocabulary - perhaps to bring one's knowledge of Polish to B2/C1 level? I suppose I'll have to just do my own bit to read and translate as much as possible on my own. I'm really looking forward to the new tree and hope that it comes out in due course ! Thanks for revamping Polish - quite a few of us want to continue getting more out of it !
I have no opinions about this site: https://freelanguage.org/learn-polish
However, I have used Quizlet cards before: Quizlet cards: https://quizlet.com/subject/english-vocabulary-pre-intermediate-2-polish/ https://quizlet.com/subject/intermediate-polish/
Polish Grammar online: If you poke around with the links on this page, you can find some interesting things... grammar quiz, grammar pdf download with pronunciation help.
http://slaviccenters.duke.edu/webliogra Click on the Polish flag, and then see if any links there interest you. Any BBC links for language learning are skipable for several reasons.
Three word list links.
This site, does have some material that is public, but I don't know if they have any public Polish content.
I tried to find a Professor who tossed a bit of Intermediate Polish online, but came up empty handed. Hope these help while you patiently wait for more Polish on Duolingo. ps. I downloaded the pdfs files for myself. I hope to be ready for them next year.
Thanks :) I was already at intermediate level more or less, but it's been a nightmare even trying to find local uni courses at that level so I can continue on. Will use your tips in the interim and continue trying to translate news articles, etc.
I just found a website out of Chicago, that sells Polish learning books. http://www.polonia.com/Polish-Textbooks-C259.aspx
http://www.polonia.com/HURRA-PO-POLSKU-3-STUDENTS-BOOK-P14656.aspx There is a workbook too. You might be able to find the books cheaper on Amazon, or find sample pages somewhere on the web. Amazon didn't have sample pages. However, I think I'm going to look into buying them in a few months, as I love workbooks! :D
Thanks for posting those links, i found them helpful to find recourses. Would you by any Chance know where i could buy Polish novels so i could have a go at reading fiction books in Polish? Don't worry if not, i am just struggling to find anyone who knows where to find this :)
I'm not sure about Polish novels or other books... I think empik is a book store - not sure where they ship to though. http://www.empik.com/ksiazki
Also often Amazon has some things. Maybe a kids novel? Król Macius Pierwszy? I have no idea of it's difficulty in Polish, as I read an English translation.
You could also read the Bible - many books/styles and it's all free on the internet! http://biblia-online.pl/
http://www.polonia.com/Search.aspx?k=Harry+Potter :D I 2nd the Bible, but here is another idea. I am so buying these books when I can. :D
http://www.polonia.com Does have lots of novels. Just search by author of who you would like to read in Polish. They might have it.
This is their February's new books. http://www.polonia.com/-span-stylecolorCC0000-font-size15px-font-weightboldFebruary-2017span-C537.aspx
I am half way through the current tree and enjoying it very much! My wife, who is Polish, is a foreign language teacher who uses Duo Lingo for her self and her students. I have noticed with her use of French and Spanish she has access to bots and the ability to purchase via Lingots extra challenges and practical tips for those languages. will this be available for Polish at some point?
I really appreciate this resource greatly! I am using this as a supplement to Polish classes and, no offense to my great teacher, I am enjoying this consistently and feeling successful.
I really think the starting lesson should be devoted to spelling and phonetics. We have to first learn how cz, sz, rz, ż differ from ś, ć, ź, ci, si, dzi, and get acquainted with ę, ą, ł, ó, ch, w, ń, BEFORE we are presented with such jawbreakers as "dziewczynka" and "mężczyzna". I am really enjoying this course, but I wouldn be, had I not spent an evening on youtube where native speakers explained the pronunciation of all those special combinations of Polish letters.
I'm really excited and hope it'll come out in time before my exchange semester in Poland next year =) So far I was missing the speaking exercises that you can find in other language courses on Duolingo. And having reached level 9, I can follow a slow polish speaker, but am still unable to start a simple conversation... But I got many compliments for my pronunciation so far ;)
It would be great to have some thematic exercises that involve common scenarios and multiple tense. For example, eating. I am Poland right now and I get exposed to all tenses in any given moment - Did you eat? What do you want to to eat? we are eating at.... so having exercises that focus on specific experiences and the past, present, and future simultaneously would be great. By the way, while I am only 2/3 through the tree, Duo Lingo has helped TREMENDOUSLY!!
Also, it is hard to know what version of a verb to use and how a preposition might be added to affect its meaning. For example, so far Duo Lingo uses widziec but I picked up zobaczyc last time I was here in Poland and now I am hearing patrzyc. I think both the later verbs are to look and the former to see but there are times when it is not as clear to me when I hear my family and friends speaking. Plus when they add po like popatrzyc or za it throws me a bit. Same thing with jesc - I swear there is a z in front of the verb every time someone asks me a question? Anyways, clarification on how verbs change and when to use what would help!!!
We'll do our best to create sentences which give enough context to understand the meaning.
"zjeść" is perfective. So if "you want to eat something", you use "zjeść", because you want to eat it 'succesfully', eat it whole. "jeść" would focus on the process, which of course makes sense in Present Tense (I am eating right now / I eat potatoes every week), but it may often not be the best option in past or future tenses.
Will the sentences about being strong because I eat vegetables, or not being strong even though I eat vegetables, and so on, stick around? Please? I love those ones. :D
This is exciting news, and I am looking forward to the 2.0 version, whenever it may come :) I just got through the entire tree, and am heading to the magic Level 25, which certainly will take a while to accomplish. Although not too impressive, according to many people (not me), the speaking lessons in all other languages, are of great help, at least for me. Is this going to be included in the 2.0 version? Thanks for undertaking this huge endeavor, you people rock!
Speaking exercises implementation is completely dependent on Duolingo - the company, not on our team. We wonder about it as well ;)
Thank you for your kind words :)
Really excited to hear there will be a new tree (partly because you seem super excited yourselves about all the awesome things you are preparing and partly because having different approaches with new sets of exercises really suits my learning style). Thank you for your hard work, language learners love you for it xxx
She's already proven invaluable in polishing our English translations
Ha! I see what you did there.
Rather remade, the changes are huge. Expanded as well, as it will definitely be bigger. As for other courses, that depends on their own contributors. I believe that some courses are being expanded.
This may sound strange, but how about we have a whole section dedicated to makeup vocabulary? For example, how to say lipstick, nail polish, nail polish remover, blush, mascara, shampoo, conditioner, etc,...in Polish. And for some verbs, as well. For example, to paint nails, to curl hair, to apply and/or put on makeup, to remove nail polish, to cut hair, to cut nails. Just a couple of ideas I'm brainstorming..... :)
This could be nice but for a bonus skill maybe? Or one skill for all that fashion and beauty stuff with some vocabulary.
By the way, the Russian course has a great History skill with dragons, knights, kings, etc. I really enjoyed it, even though I don't think such vocabulary is really necessary for beginners. So... The more the better! Nobody would complain about adding fancy skills like that to the Polish course. ;)
I also think it'd be good (and important) to have the very practical "I'm on my period" or the vocab words for menstrual products
A brief explanation of when to use "ty" and when to use "wy" might be helpful because modern English only uses "you" for a second person subjective pronoun.
One Major improvement point > Do more exercises where you translate from english to polish
That's just how the website works. For more translations from English to Polish... you would have to start the "English for Polish speakers" course. Which is a recommended thing to do, but probably rather at a later stage or even after you finish the Polish tree.
I"m afraid an added complication is the subtle differences between US and English English. For example, where you would use 'cookies' we would use 'biscuits', 'mum' not 'mom' .
I am now once through the Polish tree, but it's not yet fully golden. What I am missing so far are excercises about date and time like "It is half past seven", "It's 25 minutes to 5", "Our next meeting is on July 5" etc.
I mean I learnt the numbers, months etc. but not how to combine them to tell the date or time. And I think this would be useful to know when traveling through Poland.
Thank you very much for the July 2017 update and congrats to Okcydent, who often gave very helpful answers to my questions in the forum.
I understand, that you don´t want to rush to publish the new version of the course, because you really want to publish an improved and better course than before. Sadly for me: I think and I hope, I will then not be the target audience of this course anymore, but take your time, I wish you all the best.
This may not be something you have control over, but is there any way to add more question types? Like where it gives 5 or 6 words each in Polish and English, and you have to select the correct pairs? This is a nice question that quickly knocks out a lot of vocab volume without getting bogged down in grammar.
Even if that is only available for core/non-incubator classes, would there be any way to include more single-word or short sentence segment questions? Especially when you get into the verb lesson types, where it's all about verb forms, reading 20 complete sentences just takes a lot of mental effort, and it feels like this negatively affects retention. Interspersing smaller/easier questions, and some (possibly unrelated) vocab, feels like it helps on other courses, and I'm guessing Duo does it that way because their research has found this to be the case. Helps you remember more, and get more reviews done in the same time = double win.
Another question format that could break up the 20-complete-sentence exercise block would be to have just have a subject+verb, or subject+verb+object, and have a dropdown to choose the correct form/ending of the verb or object.
Even if my suggestions aren't possible, I wonder if anyone else sees the same problem, and if there's any other way to address it. Sounds like there is some major reorganization going on with 2.0 anyway, so maybe a lot of this will be mitigated.
Thanks for reading!
I have been wondering why the Polish course does not include any speaking practice? If I could have my spoken Polish tested I think it would help me grasp the difference between certain sounds. Also, It would improve my confidence generally.
Speaking exercises are something we have no control over. They'll be added if and when Duolingo's developers decide to add them, and we don't know if they will or when that might be if they do.
Even without the speaking exercises, though, I recommend saying everything out loud, whatever the exercise type. It's really just as beneficial as the speaking exercises because the voice recognition system is rather imperfect. I've heard of a sneeze being picked up and called correct...
^^^ cannot overemphasise how true this whole post is.
As well as saying stuff aloud regardless of whether you are prompted to, if you have voice recognition on a specific language keyboard, then you can dictate your answers. If you are really desperate to be forced into oral practice, these kinds of jury rigged speaking exercises are IMO better than the Duolingo kind, because in my experience, the VR is better than DL's in-house VR.
It depends what device you're using, but the VR is very good in iOS and makes for effective speaking exercises.
(Though to be honest, your best bet is to find an actual person to speak with!)
I have trouble remembering adjective endings with regards to gender and number. Charts within skills would be helpful there. I'm looking forward to tree 2.0!!!
Charts would be helpful. Personally I've started collecting all the new vocabulary -- with full declination tables -- into a Word document, and it's working well for me.
As for adjectives, they only seem to have two different declination tables -- different, but very similar. One for adjectives ending with -y and another for ones ending with -i. Easy enough to remember, at least the most common cases. :D
And where are "Tips and Notes"? It's one of the most common concerns about this course. Surely, it wouldn't harm to provide at least some basic information like declension of pronouns.
Yes, they write that they are currently not planning to add Tips and Notes and maybe they will add it to the course that still doesn't exist.
And that's the answer (apart from "maybe" - they will surely be there). The Tree 2.0 has been planned for months, the works have already started quite some time ago (it's not that we decided and then we announced it), and it wouldn't make sense to spend a lot of work on something that is going to become obsolete.
There are forums, where a lot of people (including you and me) work hard on answering the questions, so while of course it would be better to have T&N already in this version, that's what we decided on - to wait, because we don't have time and strength to do the same stuff twice. The T&N for the old tree would not really fit the new one.
Hi! This sounds awesome, but I'm not learning Polish. Is there going to be/has there already been a similar update for the Spanish for English Speakers tree? If so, please let me know. Have a nice day! -Juliette
I think that you should accept answers using numbers for both languages in the numbers section, also for the sentences with the word złoty in it, it should say złoty in the English translation and not zloty
The number thing is not going to happen - otherwise, why bother to teach numbers at all? We discussed it already some time ago so let's leave this topic, probably none of us will persuade the other one.
As for "złoty", of course both options are accepted, but I wouldn't put a letter that is not even present in English alphabet into the "best answer". But we will think about it.
well for example ï and é are not part of the English alphabet either but still there are words like naïve or résumé
Soon this discussion will be pointless as the globalist elite will change all national currencies into meaningless one.
ROFL Sorry to laugh, but I LOVED your answer and upvoted your answer (which only made it a 0. I had a Professor who predicted the European Union, a European currency and he even called it the "Euro" and it happened. Thus, people may down vote you, but it is possible, technically. However, if they were to really think about it, the Rich wouldn't want that as they make lots of money on the currency market. And, because the governments are beholden to the rich, to a point, this may not ever happen until the end times when all countries ban together to end the one race they decide to make the scape goat. (And no, I won't be more specific, nor debate this further.)
Isn't it better that we should learn the words in each language, rather than use the numbers?
accepting the numbers doesn't prevent you from actually typing it out
and how do you think people learn the numbers in the courses that accept numbers using numbers?
why do they do it in the other languages then, do you think that people don't learn the numbers in those languages at all?
1) I think it's pretty stupid if they do it in any course in the target language - using numerals is not going to teach you the numbers - just because another course does it doesn't stop it from being a terrible idea
2) I've never seen a course that allows numerals in the taught language
3) In any language where the numbers ever change due to gender, case or other factors (like Polish), it would be extra ridiculous.
Seeing a number in one's native tongue and "translating" it into a numeral does not require any use of the target language and would be worthless as a language learning exercise unless one consciously chose to say or think them in the target language, at which point you might as well write the numbers out in full anyway.
It should be self evident what a ridiculous suggestion this is. Writing 8, 9, 10 is not going to help you learn Polish numbers.
well it's you who said learning is not the issue
whether or not one can learn numbers without typing them out is not the issue
actually it's your "people won't be able to learn the numbers" "logic" that doesn't make any sense (since the other courses show the contrary)
and still no one of you has managed to explain how is it possible for people to learn the numbers in the courses that accept numbers
How is it possible for people to learn the numbers in the courses the accept numbers? By ignoring that, and typing the words for those numbers out in full anyway. If we just typed the numerals, we wouldn't learn those words. Practising something helps you learn it. Choosing not to practise it, on the other hand, doesn't.
As alukasiak said in his comment, the numerals aren't in the French course's database. Duolingo's accepting of them is a bug.
oh so now it's not about learning anymore? well either way, accepting the numbers doesn't affect the possibility of learning them in any way
I don't know what part of "waste of a learning opportunity" missed your brain on its way through your head. This is all about learning. Sheesh, it's like trying to talk sense with a gerbil.
If the numerals are accepted, the possibility (and for some, lazy people., likelihood - if you want evidence for that, look at your own continued requests for this feature) is that they will be tempted to just use numerals and not learn to write the actual numbers, which is, as has repeatedly and at length been pointed out to you, a really really bad idea. It does not promote learning, and it gives a massive opportunity for people to avoid learning a really important facet of the language. This is a bad idea, as should be obvious. It's close to an equivalent of expecting English words in target-language answers to be marked correctly. It's beyond ridiculous.
This goes double or more in languages where numbers have gender and/or case, of which Polish is a prime example. Allowing numerals when attempting to teach Polish numbers is a completely stupid idea.
If Duolingo accepted numerals, then people could learn the numbers elsewhere, but it would also open the system up to people essentially bypassing the numbers skills and not learning them. This is a really bad idea, and of course it affects learning.
(It would also make Duolingo look pretty bad for messing up on a fairly basic language skill, especially in a language like Polish.)
The Polish team have already made it clear they aren't going to do it, and it's been explained to you, repeatedly and in detail, why it's a ridiculous suggestion. Your best response has been "It won't stop people learning them" (which you keep repeating, completely ignoring the potential for abuse, and the fact it's missing an important learning opportunity) and that "other courses do it" (which is on the same level of logic as "all my friends are doing it therefore it must be right" and also totally ignores the problems specific to Polish and other languages where the numbers change a lot).
If you expect anyone to take you seriously, you need to do a lot better than that. At this point, you're just making yourself look like a dimwit who doesn't know when to let something go and admit you're wrong.
Until you can get past the broken record, I am done. There's only so many times people can say the same things and tell you the reasoning when you clearly aren't listening to what people who evidently know more than you (like, for instance, the Polish team members...) are saying. You've been told repeatedly why this is a dumb idea. I'm frankly tired of trying to explain the obvious.
it's actually you who doesn't understand that accepting numbers does not prevent you from learning the numbers in any way (as you can see from the other courses)
and do you actually think that everyone taking a Spanish course here cannot learn a single number because they accept numbers? for example I almost never type out the numbers in the Spanish and Portuguese courses and I still know them pretty well, how can that be possible?
sigh no, it's you who's not understanding that whether or not one can learn numbers without typing them out is not the issue. The point is that it's a ridiculous, inefficient waste of a learning opportunity and it's a frankly stupid suggestion that it "should" be that way.
Moreover, comparing Spanish and Portuguese numbers to languages where numbers decline or where they all have gender is ridiculous.
Well, for starters, numbers are set and unchanging words in those languages - they don't conjugate by case, like in Polish. "veinte" is "veinte", always; whereas "dwadeścia", "dwadeście", and "dwadeścioro" are all some of the many possibilities in Polish (and they aren't interchangeable).
1) just because they accept a number doesn't mean you have to type the number, you can still type it in letters
2) check the Spanish, French, Portuguese, or German course
3) true but when you're actually writing Polish (or any other language) are you going to write out the number? (no)
that's like saying they shouldn't accept any answers because people can still just use a translator and copy paste the sentence
3) I don't know about other languages, but in Polish it is a common practice to write out the numbers, especially if these are 1 to 10 or round numbers such as sto, tysiąc, milion. In more formal writing, using 3 osoby instead of trzy osoby is usually seen as a sign of sloppiness.
About 3) maybe you won't write out the numbers when writing, but you're also learning something about speaking on these courses and you won't learn how to use them properly in speech if you just use numerals when learning them.
1) Of course you don't have to, but actually giving people the option not to is plain foolish. It's a completely bankrupt learning technique.
2) As others have said, it appears to be a bug, since they do not appear in the database of correct answers, at least for French. And hey, even if they did, it is still a terrible idea that's detrimental to learning, which, ya know, is the important thing. "But such and such is doing it!" is a schoolyard reason to do something. Unless you're still under the age of seven, you really should've grown out of that by now....
Hey, people use Duobot translations in immersion all the time without even bothering to correct them. It is STILL a terrible idea to do so, and it's STILL a really bad way of 'learning' a language.
(I'm reminded of that old saying, if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you jump too?)
3) Again, it's not about what you do in every day life, it's about learning the numbers so you can use them accurately and know them properly. Honestly, how are you not getting this? Using the numerals is basically a way of short changing yourself, because you're missing out on a learning opportunity. Why would the course devs encourage this? It's a stupid thing to do, and they're hardly going to go out of their way to help people do it.
(And actually, typically, depending on the language and the number, it's absolutely normal and correct to use written out numbers. For example, if memory serves in English, the technical way is that two digit numbers and above are usually written in numerals, but one digit numbers are typed in full. Like the way I just used one and two in that previous sentence, not 1 and 2.)
Learning to type the numbers in full, correctly is part of the process of learning the language. It's that simple. It's idiotic to suggest ways to circumvent that on a language learning site. Comparing it to pasting in automated translations says it all. People who do that are cheating themselves. (And actually, it isn't equivalent; what you're asking is the equivalent of actively allowing people to write the answers in English and have them accepted as acceptable Polish answers. That's the difference between using the numerals and actually learning how to write the numbers in Polish. It's absolutely ridiculous.)
What you're asking for is a way to cheat yourself. It is, frankly, just plain stupid.
If you want to be lazy, more fool you (it's not going to do you any good whatsoever in the long term), but consistently using numerals is actively wrong in some circumstances, and it's incredibly poor practice when you're learning a language. It's sure as shooting not something the developers should be encouraging.
If all you want is pretty flags and numbers by your name, then that's your call, but if you want to actually learn the language, learn it, don't skip stuff (and cheat yourself) by requiring shortcuts and ways to get around writing things out properly.
well the TTS still pronounces the number, so you can hear how it's pronounced
Could you elaborate? I've checked 6 other Duolingo courses and none of them accepts digits in the taught language.
They used to in the French course, anyway, I think they still do. I actually wish they didn't...
I've checked exercises from Les quatre hommes boivent du lait to Un, deux, trois, quatre, cinq, six and they didn't accept these in any case.
Bizarre... I just tried and they worked for me, here's a screenshot of one example.
Weird... It's not in their database as one of the possible answers, but the system still accepts it. Doesn't happen in our course. Well, it's for the best anyway.
Weird indeed. I wonder if it might be another A/B test? Who knows, their test names aren't always very helpful.
Spanish, Portuguese, French, and German do, and I'm pretty sure Italian also does (so the original 5 courses)
Russian also does but only for some complicated numbers
@LICA98 Why spelling out the word for numbers instead of using numbers is best.
Spell "one" in German. Answer: 1
Spell "one" in French. Answer: 1
Spell "1". Answer: 1
I learned nothing. I know my numbers. Now, if we were to do this again.
一 One or 1.
For native English speakers, we know how to spell "one" so why not just use "1!? Try to type "one" in Japanese? hard! However, when the Japanese use Kanji for numbers, they do not expect to see "1, 2, 5".
I used google translator but did not do it right, so had to use my gchat to get the Japanese in something so I could paste it here. Yes, I am still learning how to type in Japanese.
But what about those who are using English when its their 3rd language to learn a 4th language, and they are trying to test their knowledge of English? This is when its best to have everyone - including MENSAs suffer with the writing out of "one, two, five".
And for me learning Polish, I too need to learn all the grammatical ins and outs of the numbers. I can't learn that by simply typing "1". I think "jeden" as I type "one". I think "dwa" as I type "two" and "pięć" when I type "five". It just helps the brain cement things, instead of taking short cuts which normally destroys really learning the language for real.
This is the last I'll write on this subject so as not to annoy the moderators. Thanks!