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  5. "A jó gyerekek a tereken játs…

"A gyerekek a tereken játszanak, nem az utcákon vagy a járdákon."

Translation:The good children play in the squares, not in the streets or on the sidewalks.

August 26, 2016

17 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GerSzej

This is a terrible translation again. To be consistent, I translated with "on" everywhere because I am now assuming that if I use "in" instead of "on", even if I am correct, my answer will be rejected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brad67391

Agreed. One of the effects of this course is to destroy our English. I find myself writing "Not to under him" just because I know that's what's expected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMaxGlobal

The translation given is incorrect. In English we would say, "playing in the squares" and not "on them". I suggest: "The good children play in the squares and not in the streets or sidewalks."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Illusn

I feel that it should probably also accept 'on the pavement(s)' in the place of 'on the sidewalks', as that's the british english word for sidewalks, but eh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/febrvary

If the definite article in the beginning can be omitted, making it a generalised statement (Good children..), could the rest of them also be omitted (...play in squares, not on streets or on sidewalks)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Yes, for the given Hungarian sentence, that would be good as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morse864051

I think this lesson got problems on preposition especially in and on


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adam11151

So to clarify, the -en in this context means 'on the squares' in terms of literally making contact with the surface of the squares while they play? So would terekben mean 'in the squares' as in within the parameter of the square, maybe as someone looking down from above would see? I'm having trouble distinguishing these subtle changes in meaning in similar case endings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Téren is what you would translate as 'in the square' in English. Hungarian uses the surface suffix because squares are usually pretty flat things and you tend to remain at the surface of those. Térben would mean you're (partly) buried in the ground.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosmo-pedant

Not to be too nitpicky, but the exercise does not have an accent over ter, whereas RyagonIV uses this accent in his discussion. Why the discrepancy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Tér is one of the nouns that shorten their vowel when used with certain suffixes. Specifically -t (accusative), -k (plural), and any of the possessive suffixes. So you get:

  • teret, terek, terem, tered, tere... , tereim, tereid, terei...

With most other suffixes attached, the vowel remains long:

  • téren, térhez, térért, térnek, and so on.

There are plenty of words that do this, for example:

  • bogár - bogarak - beetle
  • név - a nevem - name
  • kéz - kezet - hand
  • levél - levelek - letter

Together with the words that lose a vowel (tükör - tükrök - mirror), the v-stem words (ló - lovak - horse) and the very few weirdos (teher - terhet - burden) they form the group of "stem-changing words".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RossBorsod

And why is "The good children play in the squares, not in the streets nor on the sidewalks." not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

It's probably not in the database yet. You're free to report it, it's a fine translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

Actually, the usage of "nor" in that suggested sentence is considered incorrect English.

Compare:

"I drink neither coffee nor tea, but juice and water."

versus

"I don't drink coffee or tea, but juice and water."

"That decision was neither good nor bad. It was just logical."

versus

"The decision wasn't good or bad. It was just logical."

When we use "neither ... nor", we're connecting negative alternatives together. When we use "not", "or" is used to connect alternatives together. Because the negative sense of "not" carries through to everything listed after it, "nor" is redundant. The difference between "neither" and "not" is that "neither" only negates the first thing that comes after it and "not" negates everything that's listed after it. Think of "I drink neither coffee nor tea" more like "I drink" "not coffee" "not tea" and "I don't drink coffee or tea" as "I don't drink" "coffee or tea". Similarly, "That decision was neither good nor bad" can be thought of as "That decision was" "not good" "not bad" and "That decision wasn't good or bad" can be thought of as "That decision wasn't" "good or bad".

"Nor" can be used with "not" in a sentence but in a different sentence construction.

Example:

“Santa will not permit naughty behavior nor even consider bringing presents.” (https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/when-use-nor?page=1)

For other examples and more explanations:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/questions-and-negative-sentences/neither-neither-nor-and-not-either

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nor#Etymology_1

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/neither

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/not#English

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/139317/usage-of-neither-nor-not-or-and-not-nor


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

The use of "nor" in your suggested sentence is generally considered incorrect English. For a decent article on when to use "nor", see https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/when-use-nor. My other comment lists more references.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

"The good children play at the squares, not in the streets or on the sidewalks." (Reported 2019-08-26.)

Prepositional phrasing doesn't always translate one-to-one between any two languages. While Hungarian speakers may think of it as "on", English speakers may think of it as either "on", "in", or "at" (depending on dialects). While we're learning Hungarian, the biggest test is seeing if we get the Hungarian phrasing correct regardless of how we would (naturally) translate the Hungarian into English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azizberk

again a terrible example

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