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"Nosotras los habremos alcanzado a ustedes."

Translation:We will have caught up with you.

February 4, 2013

67 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alenak

Why is the "los" necessary here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rspreng

It is the direct object pronoun that indicates the thing being caught up to. "Los" means that thing is a "them" or a plural "you." It must be there. The "a ustedes" is what is optional, and it is what clarifies the "los" as a plural, formal, "you."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joehhendrickson

I thought that indirect redundant pronoun was required and direct was optional. Do I have it backwards?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuevesHuevos

You can say either of the two following constructions:

"Nosotras los habremos alcanzado a ustedes"

OR

"Nosotras los habremos alcanzado"

BUT NOT

"Nosotras habremos alcanzado a ustedes"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie282520

That is counter-intuitive for me. But I appreciate the info.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tolunayo

It is a complex set of rules depending on if the direct/indirect object is listed before or after the verb.

In this case it is after. In this case, if the direct object is also a pronoun (a ustedes) then you will need to include the object pronoun before the verb.

Here is the page from RAE (Royal Spanish Academy):

https://www.rae.es/dpd/pronombres%20personales%20%C3%A1tonos

5 .1 . Si el complemento tónico es también un pronombre personal, la coaparición del pronombre átono es obligatoria, tanto si el complemento es directo como indirecto: Me castigaron a mí; A ti te dieron el premio (no Castigaron a mí; A ti dieron el premio). Aunque son posibles, en estos casos, oraciones idénticas sin el complemento tónico (Me castigaron; Te dieron el premio), existen diferencias expresivas de importancia entre ambas posibilidades: la presencia del complemento tónico denota un propósito de contraste o discriminación, ausente de la oración en la que solo aparece el pronombre átono; así, en Me castigaron a mí, frente a Me castigaron, se subraya el hecho de que ha sido solo a mí, y no a otros igualmente merecedores de ello o más culpables que yo, a quien se ha castigado.

Another good page is here:

https://www.espanolavanzado.com/gramatica-avanzada/1735-repeticion-del-objeto-directo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShannonSha500852

You can say "nosotros habremos alcanzado a ustedes"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agonisti

I don't think anyone will ever be able to make that make sense to me.

If I get to use Spanish irl, I will most likely just consciously break it, because it just seems such a dumb grammatical rule to me. Would be interesting to see people's reactions. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenHigh

For direct objects, when the object is a simple pronoun a mí, a tí, a él, a ella, a usted, a nosotros, a ellos or a ustedes....

the pronoun before the verb is obligatory, even if you have the direct object following "a"

It is the direct object following "a" which is optional, not the direct object pronoun before the verb.

If it is something OTHER than a simple pronoun, a mi madre, for example is not a simple pronoun, then if that it included, the only time the direct object pronoun must be include is if the phrase (a mi madre) occurs before the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan799085

So helpful! That explains a couple of other exercises I just did that did not include the pronoun before the verb. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lsotos

rspreng is absolutely correct in what he is saying about this particular sentence.His analysis is very precise !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alenak

That makes sense. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnmurraybray

Much clearer now. Think I've got it !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Opal339986

Ok. But shouldn't los replace ustedes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Geonut521

Thanks got it!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ellen892121

Thank you for that good explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ochado

No, the "a ustedes" is not optional. This is a very particular expression, but it removes all ambiguity. Consider:

Nosotras los habremos alcanzado a ustedes. / We will have caught up with you. / ["los" and "ustedes" are masculine]

Nosotras las habremos alcanzado a ustedes. / We will have caught up with you. / ["los" and "ustedes" are feminine] /

Nosotras los habremos alcanzado. / We will have caught up with you. / ["los" is not clear: it could be referring to either you (plural) or to them]

Nosotras habremos alcanzado a ustedes. / We will have caught up with you. / [It is not clear whether "ustedes" is masculine or féminine--although that is normal in English, Spanish is able to be more precise]

So, the original expression "Nosotras los habremos alcanzado a ustedes" is very precise with an unambiguous interpretation. In particular, "Nosotras los habremos alcanzado" would lose the precision that we are talking about "you".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GreggSeipp

I often find Spanish to be ambiguous. Consider the opening to the Spanish translation to the English Patient...

"Se puso de pie en el jardín en el que había estado trabajando y miró a lo lejos. Había notado un cambio en el tiempo. Se había vuelto a levantar viento, voluta sonora en el aire, y los altos cipreses oscilaban. Se volvió y subió la cuesta hacia la casa, trepó una pared baja y sintió las primeras gotas de lluvia en sus desnudos brazos. Cruzó el pórtico y se apresuró a entrar en la casa. No se detuvo en la cocina, sino que la cruzó y subió la escalera a obscuras y después continuó por el largo pasillo, a cuyo final se proyectaba la luz que pasaba por una puerta abierta. Giró y entró en la habitación: otro jardín, de árboles y parras esta vez, pintado en sus paredes y techo. El hombre yacía en la cama con el cuerpo expuesto a la brisa y, al oírla entrar, volvió ligeramente la cabeza hacia ella."

Now consider the original English...

"She stands up..."

In the English version you know that it´s a woman from the very first word. The paragraph repeats "she", "she", "she" over and over again. In the Spanish you don´t know until the very last sentence of that long passage that the character is a woman. I was dumbfounded by this. It would have been so easy, so simple, to start the second sentence with Ella without changing the meaning of anything and creating only the slightest pause.

"Ella había notado un cambio en el tiempo."

But they didn't. And I have to think that it was completely intentional. They have the opportunity to identify her as a woman over and over again and they pass on it. Not until they almost have to, in the very last sentence, when the man hears her, and turns his head toward her does he relent and admit that she's a woman. Almost as if the translator was reluctant to do so. I see the same thing in other books too, where ambiguity is left out there, only to be resolved later...sometimes sentences later. I think about it any time I see it and, especially when I'm translating sentences back and forth. Ambiguous, ambiguous...

How, in Spanish, there's ambiguity everywhere. It's the idea of listener's mind allowed to float and for important details to develop in other ways than in the way we do it in English. It's big...broad...and very, very normal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShannonSha500852

Rspreng is wrong. Direct object pronouns are only needed when the direct object is omitted. It's the indirect object pronouns that are always needed regardless of whether they are explicitly stated or not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenHigh

"Redundant" direct object pronouns are required when the object is just a simple pronoun.

Reguired:

a él
a ella
a nosotros
a ellos
a ustedes

Not required:
a mi madre
a nuestros niños
a ti lado

etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lsotos

Shannon i think you must be wrong . Read this : someone says : “ los ladrones ya han salido “ and someone else answers : “ no te preocupes , los vamos a alcanzar “ .Your comments please.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aidan8

Are you 100% sure about this one rspreng? I don't believe it is necessary - as you can see from the answer to another question in this section. It is the direct object pronoun. "Habremos alcanzado a ustedes" should be enough. http://www.studyspanish.com/lessons Unit four covers direct and indiect object pronouns "los" is the dop and "les" is the iop in the formal you case. Having said that I do believe that "Los habremos alcanzado" is also valid but would have more possible ambiguities.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

That link is no longer valid, but I'm pretty sure rspreng is correct.
Check out this link http://www.duolingo.com/comment/1518148

In those examples you are explicit about what is the observed thing. Without being explicit:
Yo lo observo--->correct.
Yo lo observo a él---> redundant but it pass. here lo+él works.
Yo observo a él----> Incorrect. "lo" is mandatory if you are not explicit about the subject, and here él is not enough


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdb614

I thought Direct Object Pronouns were only required when the sentence is not specific while Indirect Object Pronouns are always required even when the sentence is already explicit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShannonSha500852

What's not specific enough about yo observo a él!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lets_learn_team.

can we use 'las' instead of 'los' if they're all female? Can someone clear this up?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sharon275517

Yes, “las” If they’re all female.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lsotos

Por supuesto ! Absolutely correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardSmi760243

I don't understand why a direct object pronoun is required and a direct object is not sufficient.

I call my mother. Llamo a mi madre.

I call her. La llamo.

I call her, my mother. La llamo a mi madre.

A pronoun replaces a noun, but surely the noun would be allowed to replace the pronoun.

https://www.spanishdict.com/guide/direct-object-pronouns-in-spanish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caversham

Thanks, rspreng. Although I knew, I was still hoping for your explanation, concise and lucid as ever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mojave4177

We shall have reached you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joycelyndaniel

I am still somewhat confused


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hvw59

"We will have caught you up" is acceptable in English English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patricia953658

Why is "nosotros" wrong? There are no contextual clues to the gender of the "we."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laqsemprecau

The audio says "nosotras", Spanish has gender so you have to listen to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrandonMadsen

Is this "caught up with" in the sense of finding out what each other have been up to lately? Or in the sense of a score like in a game? Or spatially/physically like a race or when out walking?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rdnzl

"We shall have caught up with you" should also correct, if more formal. First-person can take "shall" instead of "will" in the future tenses.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GesundShnitzel

What´s the difference between ¨We WOULD have caught up with you¨ and ¨We WILL have caught up with you¨?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ampus_Questor

HealthyCutlet, 'we would have caught up with you' is an unfulfilled condition: the 'you' would be followed by 'if' or 'but', giving the reason for non-fulfilment, eg 'but you were too fast for us'. 'we will have caught up with you' is a statement of fact, which would be followed by 'by' or 'when', giving the future time or condition of fulfilment, eg 'when you stop to have a pee'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saskia537973

Can someone clarify why the above sentance needs 'los' at the beginning but the following doesn't?

"Tú habrás alcanzado a los niños. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShannonSha500852

I'm pretty sure you're right and literally most people in this forum are wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sharon275517

A comment above about needing the “los” when the direct object is not specific makes me think that “a los niños” is a specific-enough direct object so “los” is not required. But “him”, a mere pronoun, “a él”, perhaps is not specific enough, so “los” is required. That’s my current theory. (Keeping my eyes open for further confirmation.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Max637773

We will have reached them? Why not? Ustedes is plural not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hacu.

Ustedes is plural for 'You'. It only uses the same object pronouns & conjugations as 'them', but is distinct from 'ellos/ellas'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ian892568

Nobody seems to have realised that in English "to reach" and "to have caught up" are not the same at all ! You "reach" somewhere or something. You "catch up" with someone who is ahead of you (either physically or otherwise). You can reach someone behind you but only catch up with someone in front. How do we know which is being referred to in Spanish ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

We are all aware that "reach" and "catch up" are different in English. The problem is Spanish uses word word for both senses.

https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/alcanzar

Only context can tell you which one fits the best when translating.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ronan722720

can los mean "them" not just "you"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

It can other times, but here we have ustedes to tell us it's you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcomero

Parece que dice..." Nosotras DOS "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/foolwise

Isn't nosotros also possible (i.e. masculine we)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zach586965

really really really annoying getting counted wrong for using "nosotros." i realize it is a listening exercise but still.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TonyToft

We will have caught you up is a perfectly acceptable English translation of the Spanish and should not be marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carole943438

I think it would be equally correct English to say "We will have caught you up"


[deactivated user]

    I though "a ustedes" indicated an indirect pronoun " le" (ustedes follows a preposition)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcy65brown

    A ustedes can clarify les (indirect object pronoun) or los/las (direct object pronouns).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie282520

    Marcy, I am confused having read all he points of view. Even some/one web site(s) have been discounted? Can you clarify the rule about direct and indirect objects? It helps to have examples in Spanish that are also translated because the structure of IDO and DO sounds different now. I thought I understood, but seem now to feel I do not..


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcy65brown

    Hi, Marie. Please study all about direct and indirect object pronouns at studyspanish.com (Grammar Unit Four). There are lots of examples in Spanish that are also translated, and even a couple of quizzes you can take for each topic (and more if you want to register). This may narrow your confusion down to a more specific question about clarifying the rule about direct and indirect objects.
    I think wazzie meant that the link itself didn't work, not that the website has been discounted.
    And yes, rspreng is correct. :-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenHigh

    Please read the other answers


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miahwtech

    Can you also use "contigo" and the ending?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.BombasticRat

    Is "los/las/le/lo/te/me" ever not necessary in a sentence like this, or is it always used?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelTrujllo

    I am going nuts with the English translation of the future tense for haber. No one says "will have", we just say will. "I will do it", we don't say "I will have do it". In the example in English it would be "We will catch up with you". The English translation of this whole section is so unnatural, please fix this.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sharon275517

    It’s “I will have done it”, not “I will have do it.” For example, “by the time we leave for vacation next week, I will have done it.”

    This is the “future perfect” tense. It is used to describe actions that will take place in the future, but before some other action in the future.

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