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  5. "Η ίδια η αδελφή μου τρώει μί…

"Η ίδια η αδελφή μου τρώει μία σοκολάτα."

Translation:My sister herself eats a chocolate.

August 30, 2016

38 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snekre

'My sister is eating chocolate herself' is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zenno4

I was wondering the same


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Niko837328

Its not actually wrong, it just hasn't been added yet I guess.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G.Georgopoulos

It's one of the alternatives ;)

Edit That alternative included the indefinite article, while yours didn't, so your suggestion has been added as well. Thanks for your comment!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kanakakisermis

"αδερφή" should also be accepted instead of "αδελφή"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/risingape

What's the story with αδελφή vs. αδερφή, if you don't mind my asking? Is one considered a more antiquated spelling? Is one a regional variant?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greekthenick

Good question risingape. Αδερφή is an equally acceptable alternative form of αδελφή, which seems to be the formal one. In modern Greek they are equally correct. Can the Duo Greek team sort this???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

Both are accepted. Except on the Listening exercises where of course you need to type what you hear. Usually, it's "αδελφός/αδελφή".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kat106595

The word αδρλφός (brother) comes from the ancient greek word δελφύς (woomb).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kat106595

*αδελφός , excuse my typo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil682961

Why does the Greek have "μία" where the English doesn't have an article?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antonis_Paf

Indeed this a mistake


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jamie36257

Indeed. After making a big deal in earlier lessons about how μια means "one" and not just 'a', and cannot be used casually the way the indefinite article is used in English, to find it here is very odd. If this is a mistake can it be corrected, please? Would one of the mods please confirm whether this is a mistake or not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Niko837328

I'm not sure who told you that μια/μία cannot be used as an indefinite article in Greek, but they were NOT correct. In Greek our indefinite articles are simply the number one so for m, f, n they are: ένας, μια/μία, ένα.

You can find more on the topic along with a great overview of Greek grammar at this Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Greek_grammar#Indefinite_article

As for this sentence's translation, I agree that it's not quite right. I would translate it into English as "My sister herself is eating a chocolate." (note that it could be 'is eating' or 'eats' as we don't distinguish between the two in Greek).

Removing the indefinite article has the same effect in both languages of making chocolate into a non-count noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G.Georgopoulos

Yes, from what I see, the sentence without the indefinite article is accepted as well and is definitely a better translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Byron9999

Nobody who is a native English speaker would say My sister herself eats chocolate. They would say, My sister eats chocolate. or My sister eats chocolate by herself..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

Actually, both are correct but the meaning is different.

When we use the expression "My sister herself..." we are emphasizing the fact that she eats chocolate. E.g. "My sister never lets the children eat chocolate and tells them it's unhealthy....but my sister herself eats chocolate." As if this a contrary to the expected situation. "The Prime Minister himself answered the phone." not a secretary or an aide.

Saying "My sister eats chocolate by herself." means she does it when she is alone. No one is with her. Two completely different meanings.

Saying simply "My sister eats chocolate." is defeating the purpose since the grammatical phenomenon we are teaching here is the use of the emphatic "Η ίδια". There is a good explanation in the Tips & notes for this skill.

Btw I would say "My sister herself eats chocolate." or "I myself made that cake." "You yourself suggested the trip to Miami have you forgotten." And I'm a native English speaker and longtime English teacher.

See here for more on Reflexive Pronouns https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/pronouns/pronouns-reflexive-myself-themselves-etc


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sue433333

I think the confusion here is that in the sentence 'my sister herself eats chocolate', 'herself' is used as an emphatic pronoun rather than reflexive. It is not a sentence that would be used in commonly in English. However, as an emphatic pronoun it seems to work in the Greek sentence 'η ίδια η αδελφή μου τρώει μία σοκολάτα'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vee.st

Just a question...could the "My sister eats chocolate by herself." mean that she eats the chocolate bar by herself and does not share with anyone regardless if she is alone or not? Btw You have dane a great job with a very difficult language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

That's right. "...by herself..." is not a correct translation for this sentence. Thank you for your kind words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robert672165

Jaye, we all appreciate your help, but I don't think "my sister herself eats chocolate" is correct. It's "my sister herself eats A chocolate". So your suggestion that she eats chocolate and others don't doesn't explain it. Maybe better "my sister is eating a chocolate herself" but it still begs the question why would you emphasize "herself". So this isn't a good example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

From what I see I wrote that both are correct as sentences (grammatically). but the meaning is different. And went on to say that "'by herself' is not a correct translation ".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uw6bKIKY

Good analysis Jaye! I think the problem is that without a context, this makes little sense in English. It seems to imply that most people can't manage to eat chocolate without assistance! But now that you explain the emphasis (ie after telling her children she doesn't eat chocolate) it makes sense. I just wonder whether this structure should be taught at this level of Greek learning. It's structurally complex and the meaning rather special. What do you think about putting it higher in the tree? It has caused so much discussion which is not usually a good sign.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G.Georgopoulos

To be honest, with Tree 2 at this stage, moving a skill will make things rather complicated, as other skills would have to be rearranged as well (and some of the known words would turn into unknown ones for a given section of the tree). From my personal standpoint, the tips&notes for this skill do the job. In any case, thank you for your feedback.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/l_LOVE_CHlCKENS

I love Jaye's response to this inquiry and I think I can also add something that may help:

My Greek friends say the best way of saying "me, myself, and I" is "εγώ, εγώ, και εγώ"

Don't think about the English sentence when you utter the Greek words. Just understand "herself" is an attempt to explain the concept of the Greek sentence in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

When creating sentences without much, if any, context we have to think outside the box. And comments from learners help a lot.

Oh, yes...εγώ, εγώ, και εγώ...just about covers it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

"My sister herself eats a chocolate." is also a correct translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greekthenick

jaye16 - αδερφή is also a correct translation :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 273

As stated above both αδελφή and αδερφή are correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taniathasta

Αδελφός και αδελφή είναι παράγωγα της αρχαίας ομηρικής λέξης ''δελφύς'' που σημαίνει ''μήτρα'' από όπου και η λέξη ''μήτηρ''=μητέρα .Αδελφός είναι, λοιπόν η πρωταρχική λέξη που από παραφθορά ή εξέλιξη λέγεται και αδερφός.

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