"Εσύ και εγώ."

Translation:You and I.

September 1, 2016

23 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

You and me is accepted. But I wonder. That English is objective case. And isn't the Greek nominative (= subjective)? And yet, there's also not a complete sentence here, so how could we really tell in either language if there's a clear grammatical rule? It's just a question, not an "object"ion. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/philipduerdoth

me is often used instead of I in spoken British English. Not all will agree with this but listening to spoken British English will confirm it.

The Queen sometimes says: My husband and I...

Formal spoken English will usually choose the same words.

Informal spoken British English will often invert the two persons and choose me instead of I.

Me and my wife... Me and my friend...

Many outside the UK and some formal folks in the UK will say adamantly that this is wrong or even bad grammar but this is what people say.

I, and the rest of the British population, can't all be wrong. (Formal.)

Me and the rest of us can't all be wrong. (Informal)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

I think you misunderstand. Of course it's "you and I" in objective case, such as in your examples. And yes, in the U.S. also this rule is broken informally quite often, just as you describe. (And yes, that is bad grammar.) But it really is "you and me" in objective case, such as "A friend will bring you and me to the airport". Just leave out the "you" (or other pairing) in all the examples, and it's clear to most anyone when to use "I" and when to use "me": [You and] I go to the store. "Me and my friend went" is even worse, because when one pairs the subject, it is considered bad manners to put yourself first - my friend should come first. (But then everyone would see that "me" is wrong.)

The real point here is that the (correct) use of "I" or "me" in the phrase depends upon its grammatical function in the sentence. And my question was about the fact that this example is not a sentence, but only a phrase. It is not clear here which word might apply. But what I know of "εγώ" is that it means "I", nominative case (same as English subjective). What I do not know is what the accusative (objective) case is. If εγώ is also used for that, then the Greek could be correct for either. Otherwise, only "you and I" is a correct English translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giorgio182480

Now, while I find phrases like "it's you and me" acceptable, there are people that hypercorrect them, resulting in sentences like "she saw you and I". Hypercorrection seems even worse.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the topic. Just a pet peeve...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

"She saw you and I" is incorrect! (Or is that what you were saying?) She saw me, she saw you, so she saw you and me.

"It's you and me" is incorrect, but it's also less bothersome because this has to do with another point of grammar having to do with how we treat the verb "to be". The classical treatment is that "is/are" is intransitive and doesn't really have an "object". That is, "being" doesn't "do something"; it's existential. You drive a car. Car is the object because it's the thing that's driven. It is I (the correct form) because "I" just am, I'm not something that's being operated on.

But for many decades now, "it's me" has become so commonplace that it sounds virtually stilted to use "it's I". However, "to be" is still intransitive, and the objective rather than subjective is still the thing that makes sense grammatically. No amount of common practice is going to change that fact because "to be" just "is what it is". That likely will continue to be ignored, however.

But of those who have heard of all that, so many seem to have misunderstood, and "hypercorrect" (as you put it), incorrectly changing "she saw you and me" into "she saw you and I", and further sowing confusion in listeners. And I'm with you on that one. Drives me nuts! Sounds SOOO bad. "I" am the one being seen, so it must be "me". Now if they could only hear you and me. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dr.Moir1

I'm learning Koiné Greek, and just got up to Personal pronouns. 'You' in NT Greek is "σύ" - where/when did the Epsilon enter in? Just curious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TFG

I'm not quite sure how y in εγο is pronounced. Is it more like an English v or a soft g


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oxq

γ produces a y sound before ι, η, υ, ει, οι, ε, αι. For example γελάω (yelao), γύρος (yiros), etc. Before other letters it is pronounced like a combination of a soft g and r.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TFG

I just realized what I was looking at. Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Donnellyo

Thought I'd see it in the discussion, but why does u' sound like "ee" at the end of 'you'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D_..

That's the sound of Υ/υ! :) It is pronounced 'ee' as in 'see', like Η/η, Ι/ι, Ει/ει and Οι/οι. Only when combined with ο in ΟΥ/ου it is 'oo' as in 'broom' (both letters make one sound).

This information is included in the Tips and notes section under the alphabet skill lessons. Tips and notes are available on the website, be sure to read them! Happy learning!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/philipduerdoth

Because υ is lower case Y (ipsilon), pronounced exactly like all the other i sounds - ita, iota, oi, ei. I live in Δρύμου, which appears on signposts either in lower case Δρυμου, or upper case ΔΡΥΜΟΥ, or in English as Drimou or DRYMOU. So whoever designs the roadsigns doesn't always get it right.

A visiting English friend said he had never been to 'DRY MOO' before. I'm afraid I said: Where?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

That's the current sound of the vowel. Greek has several vowels that sound pretty much the same, and the different letters and spellings derive from a historical time when they were pronounced differently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/May5u5aN

Thanks for the suggestion!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silverleaf88

Γιατί όχι <εσύ κ'εγώ>; Is the contraction not allowed?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16

Yes, it is now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarakSaltz

Martin Buber wrote: "Εγώ και εσύ" originally "Ich und Du" [1923].

Μάρτιν Μπούμπερ

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9C%CE%AC%CF%81%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BD_%CE%9C%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BC%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%81


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmaVarga

We don't wanna be like this We can make it 'til the end. No, nothing can come between Εσύ και εγώ.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/philipduerdoth

in English between you and me

in Greek μεταχύ εσένα και εμένα

Moderators—is that correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/O.Zoe
Mod
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Nothing can come between you and me.
Τίποτα δεν μπορεί να μπει ανάμεσα σ' εμένα και σ' εσένα.

Or "...ανάμεσα σ' εσένα και σ' εμένα" if we want to keep the exact English word order. However, in Greek we don't find it impolite to start with "I" and then the rest of the pronouns. For me personally, it sounds more natural to start with εγώ/εμένα and then the other pronouns.

Also, (perhaps another personal preference) I avoid using μεταξύ with pronouns or if I use it, I would use more archaic forms of them. I would say, for example, "... μεταξύ εμού και εσού". I'm not sure why. It would be interesting to hear what other native speakers think about it. :)

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