Feedback and Questions thread
Thank you for giving us feedback and also for sending us reports. Your help is very important in order to improve the Greek course and graduate from Beta sooner.
Since June 3rd the course is locked. Therefore we cannot add or remove words and/or skills and of course we cannot change the audio. The only things we can do are: 1) Change the English translation of a Greek sentence. We cannot change the Greek sentences 2) Edit 'Tips and Notes' 3) Remove problematic sentences and replace them with new ones 4) Disable sentences with problematic sound (it is not available at the moment, but it will be really soon). However, we will be able to edit the tree in the future, so that we can update it (new skills, words e.t.c).
I created this thread in order to ask us your questions, to recommend new words or skills, to tell us the pros and cons of the Greek course, to share useful links with your co-learners and anything else you consider important.
You can also look at the Useful Greek Resources thread.
You can comment in Greek or English! Comments in another language and spam or irrelevant comments will be deleted. If there are many comments simultaneously, we will lock the thread for some hours.
Η Ελληνική ομάδα
I think it's great that there is no transliteration option. If people can get through Hebrew without one, they can certainly get through Greek. Anybody who's finished high school math and science comes in familiar with half of the alphabet anyway: not sounds, sure, but the forms are familiar, and the names certainly help one remember the sounds. And the keyboard layout is tied to the English one, which makes picking it up on a computer all the more easy.
It seems like every day there's a thread in the Russian forum asking if a new learner should do the course in transliteration. I've never seen anyone even try to argue for "yes" (the only argument is "well, if you don't actually care about Russian at all...")
It seems like every day there's a thread in the Russian forum from someone who has had the course switch to incomprehensible characters they can't make sense of (that would be the transliteration), totally befuddled as to how to continue with their learning.
Unfortunately, the Duo programmers seem to have made a mess of the Russian transliteration system, to boot. After hours of working to figure it out, I could only ascertain that you just have to enter words with characters missing in order for them to be counted right. One wonders what oddities might pop up in the Greek transliterations, a less immediately phonemic endeavor to begin with.
I think I read somewhere that you were planning to have a transliteration system added. I'd encourage you to really give a think about what would be achieved with that if you haven't already.
Your alphabet skills are good. The course has been out three days already, and I don't even see anybody asking how to learn the alphabet. (Compare the mass confusion in the first few days of Hebrew; granted, it's a much more difficult case) You succeeded in getting folks over this hurdle. I'd call your work pretty well done on this point! You've got enough error reports to deal with, I'm sure to not want to have to deal with the ones that would arrive with transliteration problems!
Anyway, my 2 cents :) Great course!
I don't mind not having one for Greek because the Greek keyboard has a similar layout to English but is takes a lot of getting used to for Ukrainian more so for Hebrew! I think phonetic keyboards like on Google translate would be the best options for those languages.
Yeah, I gave up on the Ukranian because of the keyboard, I remember spending so much time trying to guess letters that it become frustrating. Perhaps Duolingo could start the course teaching how to type the letters with a test out option for some of the languages that use alphabets that diverge from the Latin alphabet.
Do not give up. All operating systems give you a keyboard character map you can keep on screen while you use Duolingo.
I know I'll return to it, but perhaps at a later date. Thanks for encouragement and advice. I usually study a language for a while give up and try again, until I eventually make some progress.
It might be a bit much to ask, but a flashcard-style thing to teach the alphabet would be nice. I've absorbed it nicely, so it shouldn't be too much of a priority, but I would like it.
Also, say something about how the ; is a ?. I reported a few of them, thinking it was a mistake and not knowing that the semicolon is a question mark in Greek. Something about that in Basics 2 or Phrases would be nice.
Ευχαριστώ and congratulations on this course!
We will try and we will do it if we can! As about the question mark we will mention it! Thanks ;)
i have one question I just started doing Greek and I wanted to know on a scale of one to ten is the Greek keyboard hard
At least half the letters are right where the Latin equivalent are several are where the Eng. sounding ones are which leaves only 4-5 rather new which you'll learn quickly.
We have prepared all this and you'll find it in the Tips&Notes in the ABC unit.
Good luck and feel free to ask any questions you have.
Between 2 and 5 depending on whether or not you have studied much maths or science. This is ONLY a personal opinion, other people may have a different view.
One is easy ten is hard? I'd say 2. Don't worry you get used to it. I personally think Greek has aspects much harder than the alphabet :) Reading and writing has reasonable rules and you just learn it, there are a number of i's for example and I confuse them sometimes but it's okay. I find writing in English more difficult, because it's based on memorizing rather than rules.
In the Tips under ABC, for Γ, it says it is pronounced like woman. I understand that there is no real equivalent in English (or maybe there is) but I suspect this may cause more confusion than be helpful. Great job on the course!
In English there is no sound for the letter γ, so we decided to added woman as the nearest pronuncation in English.
This seems very confusing to me. I have tried to listen very closely to the audio and gamma never sounds anything like a W-sound in English.
What I think I hear comes closer to a mix of a hard "g" and "y"
I'm on board with that. You explain it very well. I'm going to listen to a video with the Greek alphabet and if it sounds ok I'll uplad it and let you know.
Try this out. Go to a Greek Eng. dictionary and listen. Google is good I just tried. Get this dictionary link with lots of dictionaries together, they don't all have audio. http://www.lexilogos.com/english/greek_dictionary.htm
Hi, as a native speaker of both Greek and English, I have noticed that it is a common misconception among native Greek speakers (whatever their level of English) that "W" in English bears a slight resemblance to Γ. You often hear things like "γουίνγκ" when pronouncing the word "wing". In reality, in most (if not all) forms of English, the tongue never takes the position required to make any sound resembling Γ when making the sound W, which is made solely with the lips (the tongue remains passive and never touches the ουρανίσκο). Thus, a more accurate representation of "wing" with Greek characters would be "ουίνγκ". So comparing the two is not accurate and simply confusing to native English speakers :) I don't think you can have a letter in English represent Γ more closely than G for γα, γο and γου, and Y for γε and γι. Thank you for all the time and effort you guys have put into this course!
We have a lot in common only I'm first an English speaker and Greek came second. And I agree about the "W sound. I usually use Y as in YES. As you say nothing is ever exact but I hear more Y. I hope you come back with more observation they would be very much appreciate.
Edit:: I've just tried to edit the "W" advice and find it's in the notes which have been locked by Duo. I left a report and hope to be able to do it at a later time. Until then I'll have to keep giving advice. Thank you again.
I think woman, with a 'w' sound is misleading. It really doesn't sound at all like an English 'w'.
I think the letter γ may be similar to the Ukrainian letter г. And it may sound as a combination of two english letters hg or the greek letters χγ.
Can I make a request? When asking about a particular item please give some context. For example, "My answer was right but it wasn't accepted." Which sentence was it in, what was the reply and of course what was your answer. We can clear things up more quickly that way.
Edit: And please indict whether it is Eng to Greek or Greek to English.
Edit If you have a question please write it here and not in the Report a Problem. Here we can answer it.
You do realize, though, that when there is a problem we are not given the option to comment, we can just submit that there is a problem?
We can always comment here instead of at the specific exercise. It is more troublesome for us, but at this point it is probably easier on the team.
I gave this answer today and it was marked wrong: ξεκουράζεται για πολλή ώρα
The 'correct' answer was given as: ξεκουράζεται για πολύ ώρα
However as ώρα is a feminine noun, surely the correct answer is πολλή ώρα not πολύ ώρα
In another lesson I was marked wrong for putting σας instead of σου when either would have been correct as there was no indication whether it was familiar singular or polite plural.
I have to admit I found the placement test a bit confusing, not because of lack of Greek knowledge but because of the way that some questions were asked. When I was asked to translate 'f fee', I thought I was being asked for the word fee in Greek until I found similar questions afterwards about other letters. The test rated me as having no skills so I deleted the course from my profile and took it again and I was placed at level 8. Some of the questions are a bit ambiguous and can have more than one answer, but if you give the unexpected one you are marked wrong and can end up in the 'no skills' category - even if you know quite a lot of Greek. There was also an English typo I noticed in the test: 'the water' was written as 'thewater'.
Thanks for all your work creating this much anticipated course by me and others!
Thank you very much for the reports!!! We will try to find the sentences in order to correct them :)
Thank you very much for the report. If you could give an idea which unit/subject e.g. for this: marked wrong: ξεκουράζεται για πολλή ώρα. The 'correct' answer was given as: ξεκουράζεται για πολύ ώρα.
Can you recall where the σου/σας was? I'm going through all the units one by one but, of course, something can easily slip by. We want to be as accurate as possible. As for the placement test we'll have to review it all. Thank you for the feedback.
Thank you for your reply. I'm pretty sure that ξεκουράζεται για πολλή ώρα was in 'Verbs: Present Passive'. I think the σου/σας was in the placement test, so I cannot say exactly which unit it originates from.
I found another sentence which I think may need more options (I'm not sure if I should start a new thread with this). It comes from Pronouns relative, Lesson 1. The sentence is: Ποιος είναι αυτός ο δρόμος;
I gave the wrong answer because of the word order I used, which may be as you prefer to keep it, but I think it could be translated as: Which street is this? Which is this street? What is this street? What street is this?
I'm excited to be able to learn Greek on Duolingo, and congrats on what must have been a huge amount of work on getting it out the door.
My experience so far -- as someone who came in knowing about 80 percent of the Greek alphabet -- is that it gets a lot less bumpy and lots smoother right after the A-B-Cs level, which I found confusing and maybe a little awkwardly implemented. I was like, "Wait, in other languages they start by teaching us 'the boy is drinking water' and stuff, why are they asking us for 'bullhorn' and 'the letter alpha'."
I imagine the developers must be slammed with implementing features for these non-Roman keyboard languages. I do think the flashcard approach that someone else suggested, for whenever it comes out, will be a way smoother way to get into an unfamiliar new alphabet.
Likewise there must be blueprints somewhere at Duolingo HQ for a friendly multi-language keyboard input system. I still can't figure out a smooth flow on my Mac between pulling down the U.S. keyboard mode and switching back to the Greek flag every few answers.
Again thanks for all your work. I'll be way into this
On a Mac you can set up a shortcut to switch. Look at System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts > Input Sources
Oh I see it, thanks. It defaults to the same as the CMD+spacebar for Launchpad but can be changed.
I'm enjoying the course quite a bit so far. I've found two parts a bit frustrating.
The ABC's section, which you have tons of individual feedback on. My suggestion, if possible, is to make it an optional section or a section you can permanently test out of/turn off.
I feel the parts of speech are placed far too early in the tree. As a learner, knowing the Greek words for the different parts of speech isn't that important to me. It's frustrating to have to wade through grammatical terms I'm pretty unlikely to need for day to day conversation.
Cheers and thank you! It's great to have this course available.
I agree very much with this. The ABC part is particularly annoying when doing "Strengthen skills" exercises and should be disabled/optional after, say, unlocking two or three checkpoints.
Yes, we know :( It is very difficult to check the whole course again. That's why we need your reports. When you report a sentence we are automatically directed to the controversial sentence and we can correct it in a minute.
@jaye16 Great coordination :P
Thank you jaye16 and Theo_Matrakas. I can see the Greek course inside the Incubator. I will do my best to check such words without hints and report them via the exercise. I hope it helps :) Greek is just amazing! Thank you very much for all you've done for the course!
Thank you Olja we are working full out just on that. You are so right. Most Reports are about the hints.
Yes, we have been working on that. Yesterday, we were taken away from real work by computer issues. We seem to be ok today and appreciate your input and will try to act on it.
Greek question mark. There have been several questions about the strange looking question mark.
; Yes, the Greek question mark is exactly like the English semi-colon.
Thanks to the Greek team for everything. It is very helpful to know what you can and cannot do, so thanks for describing that.
I have only just started the course, but I am enjoying it so far.
I would definitely suggest revising the tips and notes section and changing those "nearest pronunciation" tables (like pso-mee). I know they are supposed to help people who don't know the IPA but honestly, every time I come across a site that extensively uses such "pronunciations", I don't treat it seriously. I'm really feeling insulted as if the creator of that site thought I was an idiot. Often there aren't even any disclaimers that those "pronunciations" have nothing to do with the reality. I imagine the creator of such a site as someone who tries to teach you a language but doesn't know himself how to do it. How can you be sure that the grammar or vocabulary he teaches you are better than those "pronunciations"? That's why when I find something like that on a site, I don't use it.
I know there are many people who feel about it the same way. I could talk about why "teaching" such "pronunciation" can only be harmful for the learners but that's not my point. The good course should either have the IPA pronounciations and optionally those bawhn-ZHOOR'y ones (see the nice Wikipedia's solution here) or not add pronunciation at all.
Please don't take it as criticism or at least as constructive criticism :) I really appreciate the course and like the notes in general but, as I said, those "pronunciations" look extremely unprofessional and ruin the whole impression. I know this is Duolingo so the courses are of good quality but if I saw a similar introduction on some other site, I would close it right away.
Sometimes understanding where these "pronunciations" fail in a set of words or syllables, is understanding about the whole transformation of sounds you have to apply to all the words of the destination language compared to your own comfort range of sounds. Ultimately, it could be the key, as it gives you both an approximation and a way to pivot into reality. But I'd agree that there has to be a disclaimer, always. Appliance/ the practice of the IPA to Greek is rare for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is the notion that Sandhi, syntactic gemination and elision are often considered undesirable even as they happen. This is why the Greeks sometimes have trouble speaking other languages fluently without an accent. I guess we have a mind for orthography and not phonetics. I have never seen a Greek dictionary with IPA, I am not sure if one exists. But here is a little something for you https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%A0%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%81%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1:%CE%A0%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%86%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%AC/%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC
I recommend making ABC optional so that people like me who are already familiar with the Greek alphabet, can immediately start learning. I tried skipping the lesson through a test, but that didn't work because I lost my hearts on the words I don't know. I would like to learn these words but skip the questions about the alphabet, so I suggest moving these words to the first real lesson.
Here are some observations I have on the "tips and notes" of the ABC section
Diphthongs: The vowel combinations on the list are not diphthongs, they are the opposite actually. A diphthong is a combination of vowels with different sounds that are together in the same syllable e.g. αηδόνι - αη-δό-νι nightingale, γάιδαρος - γάι-δα-ρος donkey, αϊτός - αϊ-τός eagle, άδεια * - ά-δεια empty [ * the "εια" combination is a diphthong in the adjective άδεια but not in the identically written noun άδεια - ά-δει-α leave/licence/permit]. In the English language a diphthong can be a single vowel (e.g. my, go, late) but in Greek no single vowel can create a diphthong by itself.
Double vowels/Vowel digraphs: They are a combination of two vowels making one single sound (monophthongs) so, αι/αί, ει/εί, οι/οί, υι/υί, ου/ού belong in this category. Maybe you could also mention that when the first letter of the combination is accented or when the second one has a diaeresis upon it, then they are pronounced separately (e.g. εμείς - emis we but κέικ - keik cake, υιοθεσία - iothesia adoption but μυϊκός - miikos muscular, αίμα - ema blood but καΐκι - kaiki fishing boat).
The combinations αυ and ευ: I think that they don’t belong in any other category, they’re neither diphthongs (since υ acts as a consonant instead of a vowel), nor double vowels (same reason, but also the combination produces two sounds, one of a vowel and a consonant one). On another comment (you can find it here ), I’ve explained the rules about these combinations (when the υ is pronounced as v or f), maybe it would be helpful to other learners if something like that was included on the tips and notes?
Double consonants/Consonant digraphs: The combinations τσ and τζ create two different sounds (ts and dz) so typically they’re not double consonants. Also, according to the recent grammar rules, γγ can also be pronounced as g (e.g. αγγελία - agelia classified ad), and that’s the reason it’s considered a double consonant. Apart from that, a list of consonant combinations and their different pronunciations could also be helpful. It could cover the nasalization of double consonants (when μπ, ντ, γκ, γγ are pronounced as mb, nd, ng, nγ), how the σ is pronounced as z when a voiced consonant is following (e.g. σμήνος - zminos swarm/flock), the pronunciation of γ as a voiceless n in the γχ combination, etc. Ehm, I think I opened a can of worms with this one, haven’t I?
Punctuation marks: Maybe you could add the rest of the punctuation marks (colon :, ano teleia [semicolon] ·, parentheses ( ), hyphen -, quotation dash –, double dash – […] –, ellipsis …, quotation marks « » / “ ”). Also, you could mention the diaeresis ¨, the apostrophe ’, and the hypodiastole ,. Possibly even something about how to divide the words into syllables, where can you put the hyphen if you need to divide the word when the line breaks?
Maybe it’s all too much, I don’t know… It may even become too confusing, right? Well, they’re only suggestions, of course. You’ve done an amazing job so far, please keep it up :)
Thank you very much for your enlightening comment :D It's really useful and well-organized. I save it and I will add your suggestions as soon as possible!!!
very insightful, i really appreciate you taking the time to write this. its a lot of info but will definitely be good reference later!
Please note that both American and British English are used and accepted as translations. We are not able to add every regional expression, no slang etc.
Are there any plans for extra/bonus skills beyond this beta? Something on Cypriot Greek would be nice.
The tree is locked at the moment. We can only correct existing sentences, add alternatives 'Tips and Notes' and add new sentences for the same words. We cannot add/remove skills, add/remove words and as a result we cannot add words in Bonus skills.
When the course becomes more stable (more learners, less reports, less mistakes), we will apply for a new tree in order to strengthen the existing skills and (perhaps) to create new skills.
As about Cypriot Greek; The language of the course is standard Greek and we don't use words from Greek dialects. The only possible way to add Cypriot Greek is as a bonus skill, but it's unlikely to happen, because the majority of the contributors doesn't know Cypriot.
The incubator says: Not yet. which is better than never. But when or what hasn't been announced. If we are asked we'll request Cypriot but it's not in our hads. Finger crossed.
τη or την?
I have found this to be one of the more frustrating elements of the course. Although I know it is more common to use τη unless it is followed by a vowel or a plosive - when την should be used, I had learned that it is never actually wrong to use την instead of τη. I have to admit that I have always using την and never τη and it is therefore a bit frustrating to be marked almost correct or even wrong for using την instead of τη.
Greek isn't the easiest language to learn, with many grammar rules to remember to use in every sentence, so perhaps insisting on τη instead of την is a bit too advanced at this stage. I already understood a lot of Greek grammar before beginning this course and it isn't so difficult for me to start using this rule. However I think I would have found this so difficult to remember when I started learning Greek, in addition to genders, cases of nouns and adjectives and the complex verb structures. Are there notes explaining the rules of τη and την? I must have missed them if there are.
A heartful of thanks to everybody in the Greek Team! I had started learning Greek 4 years ago, then the classes stopped, i tried studying on my own, understood some things but never got to speaking. It's now been about a month that i started learning Greek here, i am at the objects part (level 9) and i had never progressed so fast. For the first time i feel it is really possible to learn this wonderful and difficult language! I'm so excited!
I'm a single, working mom with 2 young kids, such a progress with 15 minutes a day is like a blessing for me. A more amazing surprise is that i'm able to hear and read the emphasized syllable - my native language (turkish) is not strongly accentuated and although i know that tonos is important i just couldn't hear where it was. i can hardly believe that i now can put the accent to the right syllable most of the time.
My kids also found it playsome, i'm saving money now to take them to Greece this summer and do some practice.
I wrote this in English to motivate all beginners now and i hope to write up a more detailed thank you message in Greek when i get to the end of the tree.
Thank you danenda you made my day and I'm sure all the team will be gratified by your kind words as well. Duo has set up quite a successful method I think. Best wishes on further learning and I hope you get to Greece.
First of all, I would like to congratulate the team for this course. It is not easy to find courses for learning Modern Greek (I only knew of Mango).
I have not finished yet the tree, but I would like you to suggest some changes or additions in case you wanted to add them:
first lesson, ABC: please, put the alphabet in order! A friend of mine was complaining about it in twitter and turn down the course because of that.
it would be a good idea to add the article to nouns in the dictionary. I think it is very useful, specially, for example, for words ending in -α than can be a feminine or a neuter at first sight.
I don't know if this one could be possible but, in the gerunds, participes and other forms that change in the aorist, could it be possible to show in the dictionary the present? I don't know how easy is for someone who does not anything about the history of Greek to relate είχε with έχω (yes, because of the meanings). I think it would be easier to learn the verb forms this way rather than showing the meaning, but maybe that's my experience.
Thank you anyways for the opportunity of learning Greek in Duolingo.
I want to thank you for your outstanding advice. As you know the Duo teams are untrained volunteers in creating these courses. Since we are still in Beta we are searching to correct and improve it and your advice will go a long way to help us do that. I'm sure what you say will help not only the Greek team but many others. It is only someone who is using the course who can know just what is needed to make it achieve its purpose of teaching the language. Many thanks for your invaluable contribution.
Here is a good virtual keyboard:
Hi! Thanks so much for all your work. I have been following the greek progress for almost a year now and am excited to start. I was wondering how accurate the TTS recordings are in regards to how greek is often spoken.
It is very close -more than we expected- but there are few problematic sounds.
care to share what the problematic sounds are? does the course tell you where the problematic sounds are in words or at least tell you on some lesson so you can try to correct for it?
Up to Level 4 on day one. It's a great course so far. Its my 12th. .Had to ask question in lesson one to find out about having to download Greek Language Pack for Windows 10. The download was fairly easy an I am learning to type in Greek. Also have to remember to toggle back and forth between alphabets. I would suggest a more prominent notice about getting Greek keyboard input before getting started. Thanks to everyone who labored to get the course this far!
You needn't have downloaded an entire language pack just to use the keyboard layout. Unless you wanted to use Windows in Greek, that is ;) (which is a nice immersion thing once you have a better grip on any language).
@RobertEddy Thank you for your feedback. It's a good feeling to know that learners find they are, well, learning. Yes. we were really tardy with the links for the Greek keyboard. No, excuse. Such an important detail should not have been neglected. Level 4 in one day is really impressive. Great job. Please feel free to give us feedback, it's what improves the course.
Yeah, I would suggest that the need for setting up a Greek keyboard in one's own OS represents a jump in difficulty and tech know-how that I was O.K. with, but which my parents might never figure out -- at least not without a non-threatening tutorial on here. I'm enjoying Level 6, but I think the alphabet level and its unique "k kappa, ν νεε" format scared off my mom.
It at least seems easier on a tablet than on a computer.
Well I am probably in your parents' age group (I'm recently retired), and in my case setting up the keyboard is the least of my worries! I have some problems with the audio - I find it particularly hard to follow the pronunciation of some phrases, even on "tortoise speed". Perhaps part of the problem is that I have not properly learnt the alphabet yet - particularly this γ / g / y / w thing, and the multiple Greek letters to represent "o" and "i" sounds. I need to find some more online resources.
I'm actually finding it more of a challenge at present than either Russian or Arabic - but I did learn Russian when I was at school, and Arabic about seventeen years ago - my powers of mental retention have diminished since then!
First of all, you are by far one of the most conscientious learners around and age has nothing to do with it except add maturity and consitencey.
There are 3 ways to say the ee sound and as with any language must be learned with each word. Think of f and ph as a brief example. For the 2 os it's important to remember that the ω is always used at the end of the simple present first person: I sing = τραγουδώ.
I'm leaving a link for pronunciation at hte end. Also, get this set of dicionaries all in one link and most have audio. > > >http://www.lexilogos.com/english/greek_translation.htm#
>http://forvo.com/tags/ Native speakers.
Thanks very much jaye16! Yes, it all comes down to regular practice and persistence. That pronunciation guide looks and sounds very good. I need to explore the dictionaries a bit!
Hi BampaOwl, I'm with you on the very difficult sounds. (Yes, my parents are about your age.)
I came to Duolingo with the advantage of spending a few months bumbling around the confusing vowels, with help from my Greek-speaking in-laws and other resources. There was slow going for me on the first few Duolingo levels but around Level 4 a bunch of things clicked and I hope they will for you.
There are so many ways to say "ee" in Greek. I think they used to be different sounds in Ancient Greek and then all morphed into a long E.
While I was waiting for Greek I tried Polish. Boy was it hard.
Thank you for those encouraging words. You'll both go a long ways. When I was young there were 6 ee sounds 2 have been retired. Well, maybe found in old writings.
I don’t know about sounds, but about letters, yes, their values have changed: there were the eta (now eeta), the epsilon (still the same) and the iota (still the same). Also, diphthongs such as οι, ει have gotten the same sound as the iota, while αι has gotten the sound of epsilon; this is usually called the iotization of the language.
Hello and congratulations, you have done a great work, at least up to where I am right now (Verbs: Present 1) and I guess the rest must be as good!
Something I have noticed is that the word "τσίζκεϊκ" is written without diaereses and pronounced "τσίζκικ".
Like others, I also strongly think that the Parts of Speech skill is unnecessary, or too early in the course.
I am also reading the notes in Verbs: Present 1, and they could do with a revision, especially the paragraphs under the table. There are missing spaces, some "i" instead of "I" and the syntax and punctuation are a bit clumsy. Furthermore, maybe the explanation of the "μου αρέσει" construction is hindered by the word fruit, that becomes plural in Greek, so that there are two simultaneous changes from the English phrase (although I cannot really know, I am a native Greek speaker). I suggest you use another noun (μήλα;) and put some notes about uncountable nouns in English, which become countable (φρούτα, χρήματα, σοκολάτα, νερό...). If such notes are in a further skill, I suggest moving them upwards, maybe in the Plurals skill.
So as not to be too harsh, I want you to know that I really like your cultural notes about greek food in the Food skill! It hope there are more such lovely touches in the rest of the course. Keep going! :)
Some spelling mistakes in the Tips Notes of the Numbers skill: τρία, ενενήντα. You could also include the variants επτά, οκτώ, εννέα with a note that they are more formal than εφτά, οχτώ, εννιά and the variant δυο which is less formal than δύο (however δύο sounds like δυο in full speed), and another note about the declension of τρεις/τρία and τέσσερις/τέσσερα.
Have been added and many thanks. I've also added some others you mentioned for the Accusative that were also a great help.
Another suggestion: in the tips & notes of the Accusative section, you could add that when the indefinite article used for indirect objects, we don't add σ- in front of it, but the separate word σε: στον άντρα, σε έναν άντρα. It might be useful to say that this word, σ(ε), means "to", too.
Something else I have noticed: In the "Choose all correct translations" questions, I have only found one correct translation so far. However, there are opportunities for multiple meanings both ways that will help solidify all the meanings of some words, e.g. είναι = he is, she is, it is, they are, you = εσύ, εσείς, lamp = λάμπα, φωτιστικό, and so on. I think it would be nice to add some such sentences in this type of exercises, unless they are automatically generated.
I believe those exercises are automatically generated, and we have little influence over them.
It's a pity. In the Spanish and French courses, such exercises actually appear and they are helpful... Could it be that these courses are both "old" (not volunteer-made)?
Thanks for your hard work Greek Lingo folks. Enjoying the course thoroughly.
Hi! First, thank you for creating this course, I've been really looking forward to refreshing my Greek knowledge using Duolingo :)
I wanted to ask about "Tips and Notes". It's a very helpful section while learning the language, however, with this course it suddenly stops when the cases start and that to me is the most difficult part to learn.
Would you consider adding the "Tips and Notes" to further sections (after Determiners)?
Can you please explain how to add accents? I have set up my keyboard to type Greek, but I am not sure how to add in the accents, and of course I am constantly getting "almost correct", which is mildly annoying, as I know where I have gone wrong! Thank you!
On the Greek keyboard. Press the key on the right of the L (Eng. colon/semi colon) before press the Gr. letter then press the Gr. and it should be ok. So, press :; + press Gr.vowel. Any problems let us know.
Hi! I noticed you have vocal lists and grammar explanations on the earlier lessons, but not as much on the later ones. Are they on the way?
1) are you going to accept the numbers as numbers or are we going to have to type them out?
2) will there be an option to switch to Latin letters (like Russian and Ukrainian have)?
1) We had started doing it, but then we stopped, because we considered that most learners would use the numbers instead of their Greek names. Plus, in a formal text you have to write the numbers in Greek (except big numbers) and you also know how to use the numbers. There is no need to teach this ;)
2) This is a quote from the Duolingo staff. 'We haven't scheduled work yet. It will take time as our engineers have their plates full, but we will put it on our list. We will go ahead and release into beta even without the latin characters for now.'
Like it has been said before, I don't think latin characters are necessary, but rather counterproductive. I don't think they are necessary for hebrew either, who is way harder (I'd admit I would I've like latin characters for hebrew in the begin, but now that I know the alphabet, I think it's great we don't have it).
The greek alphabet is easy, beautiful and familiar, it was a pleasure to learn it. That's my two cents, but to be fair I knew the greek alphabet before (thanks to Ancient Greek courses in high school) .
I agree that Greek numbers should have to be typed out so that we learn them. Being able to use that kind of a shortcut would be like translating "He smiles" as "Αυτός :) ". But I guess that's not a fair comparison as we can't do that in English either whereas I think numbers in English should be accepted (and maybe they already are).
Another point I would raise is that the tips of Basics 1 say "Greek like English, Russian, and many other languages uses 3 genders to describe nouns" which isn't exactly true.
It has been already pointed out by many learners. It is my fault and I will correct it when we will focus on 'Tips and Notes' ;)
DL uses the option in all languages I try to learn. I think it is wrong way, as it is easy from your native language to write numbers "translating" to the foreign language. Numbers is a separate language after all.
I really enjoyed doing this tree, thank you it was very good indeed. I already knew Greek fairly well but still benefited a lot from doing this. What amused me most was in which sets of vocab my weaknesses are e.g. it turns out my knowledge of anything relating to sport is somewhat weak :-) I sent in reports re "correct" answers with typos - of which there are a fair number - but you will soon rectify those. One of the things which tripped me up was word order: in greek word order does not have the same importance as in a language like English (providing the right forms of the words are used) but only specific word orders are accepted as correct.
Congratulations on an excellent course.
Thank you very much! In Sports skill we made a 'mistake' and we added the Greek names of the sports. However, Greek words like καλαθοσφαίριση and πετοσφαίριση are not used in Greek so much, as Greek speakers prefer their English names (μπάσκετ and βόλεϊ). In Cyprus, you can hear these words more often, but as time passes, these words are disappeared even from there.
But these are the official names in the Greek State as you know Theo. They could be used as a another solution though. Anyway, they can be put in discussion of the sentence.
I'm not sure if it's too late to change this, but I've noticed that possession/genitive, future tense, conjunctions, and some questions have already been taught (I'm finished the "Animals" unit and just about done "Food"). It's not a very big deal, but it feels sort of chaotic to have all this out-of-unit stuff thrown at me.
That is important feedback. I'll have a look, but as you said I don't think we can change it at this point.
Another thing I noticed is that for some conjugations where the subject isn't included, it will just say "want" instead of "(I) want" or "(You) want". I got marked wrong once for saying "I eat X" instead of "You eat X", but there was no hint for it.
Thanks for the help and making this course, I'm enjoying it so far!
Good catch. We try to have the first hint the exact one required and then the verb without subject. But we missed some. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I'll keep it at the top of the to do list so whatever else I'm auditing I'll check the verb.
Could you please add to the "ABC" skill the letter Ρρ with any word, starting with it? Without it this skill looks a bit unfinished)))
P.S. Many thanks for your work on this great course and best wishes to its authors!
That's a very constructive idea. I'm so sorry we didn't think of it sooner. At this point, we can't add new sentences but we are keeping a list of changes we need to make. Many thanks for your input and your kind words. Best wishes to you too.
I've just done the lesson "Plurals" and I like the fact that you've listed those patterns (by the way, I've never seen so complex and confusing rules of forming plural in any language :)). I though maybe it could be more intuitive and effective to learn if you made it as a table with rows as possible endings and columns as the gender. The endings characteristic to a specific gender could have the other columns blank so it could look like this:
Ending | masculine | feminine | neuter |
-ος | -οι | -οι | -η |
-α |xxxxxx| -ες |xx|
-ές | -έδες |xxxx|xx|
I was surprised to find the use of "πηγαίνω" over "πάω" (I don't know if it shows up later but I haven't seen it yet). Was there a specific reason for that?
Although πάω is very common in Greek, in fact it is the short form of the verb πηγαίνω and this is the reason why we decided to consider πηγαίνω the best translation and πάω as alternative.
Both are accepted and used in Greek, but πάω is more popular mainly due to its brevity :)
Fair enough. Living in Cyprus I've only heard the long form in the imperative myself, but I suppose it makes sense because they shorten almost everything here!
Hi, first of all, thanks for the amazing effort with creating this course, i've been looking forward to this for over a year, and I'm so happy now :)
I'm noticing some translation issues and didn't know how to report them, so I'll put them in this thread henceforth.
The latest one I noticed is in possessives, a sentence "your horse doesn't eat salt" or something similar. The issue was with using άλογό σου or άλογο σου. One of them can be combined with αλας and the other with αλάτη but not vice versa.
There was also another translation (in the food section I think) where a space is missing in the english translation just before the word "eat".
Im sure it has been mentioned somewhere already, but Vocabulary Cards would be very nice.
That's not a choice the group can make... it's up to Duolingo HQ which languages get a Words tab and which ones don't.
First off, thanks!! I am very excited to learn Greek through Duolingo.
I'm taking my time, and I'm only through Basics 1 right now, so I'm sure this comes up in the future, but it would be very helpful to have basic verb conjugation in the notes of Basics 1. Even if it was just 1st and 3rd person singular for the three verbs used in that lesson. I know I can look that up elsewhere, but it's very confusing to be thrown into conjugating verbs without any sort of description as to how they work.
We have added verb conjugation in the verb skills a bit later :) I know it would be nice to have them all in Basics 1 which is the first original skill, but we had to break the Greek grammar into pieces.
I do hope it won't be long. It's much easier to cope with the Greek keyboard on a tablet or smartphone. Otherwise you need to mess around with stickers on your keys. I will have to remove the Russian ones first!
Of course, the answer to my problem, I have now realised, is to use the web version on my tablet. Probably not practical on a phone though.
What do you mean? I thought it is up to you to prepare both version: for web and phone/tablet. I'd like to start this course ASAP but I'm using my tablet in 99% for learning in Duo. Good luck guys
You can always use the web version on your tablet - it's 90% as good as using the app.
While it is certainly good enough for most people, your mileage may vary — those with small screens, little memory, slow processors or MS Windows would probably find it not quite as usable as the Google Android or Apple iOS apps.
Not at all. The team prepares the course content; presentation, for whichever device, is up to Duolingo.
Duo doesn't push courses immediately to mobile versions. I don't know what the timeframe is, but courses that have just opened in beta are given a bit of time before they're released to mobile, and that time is determined by Duo, not by the course creators.
Perhaps you are right as I was waiting previously for the Ukrainian course for tablets and I had been waiting about 5-6 weeks. Ukrainian is in Beta
On, the Greek discussion formum we've added a section with links to help you install th Greek keyboard. There is also the Greeklish guide for those who prefer Latin letters for Greek words. Of course the Greek is the aim so should use the Greek keyboard.
This sentence occurs in Pronouns relative 'The boy's is as tall as the girl.'
It should be 'The boy is is as tall as the girl.' The boy's is genitive case and isn't normally used instead of 'the boy is' although it may be just a typo as 'is' already exists in the sentence.
In the Education section I gave the word 'παιδεία' instead of 'εκπαίδευση' and I was marked wrong, although I think both can be used for 'education'.
In a strengthening lesson I was asked to translate 'He went to Germany' and I was marked wrong for 'Πήγε στη Γερμανία' because I hadn't included Αυτός, although both are correct translations. I can't say which unit this comes from as it was a general strengthening lesson.
Super great catch. Thank you. I changed "boy's". I'll check on your other two queries they both sound correct and we may need to add them to the incubator.
Yes, from what I see "παιδεία" would fit. I'll see which it was and change as many are need.
Now, as for the strengthening lesson that's going to take a bit since I can't pull it up without more information. But I'll catch it. Thanks again.
In the „tips and notes“ of the unit about numbers, next to 3 there is written „τρεία“ although it should be “τρία“.
Τα μέρη is given as the parts exclusively. Should it not be also the places?
GYRO? in food lesson 7 "Ο γύρος" translation is given as "the gyro" but that's a literal translation, rather than a semantic one. Shouldn't this be called a kebab instead?
Many Greek foods were influenced by the Turkish cuisine or even adopted "as is". You're probably referring to doner kebab, right? Well, gyros and doner kebab are similar (and so is shawarma) since they are actually meat roasted on a vertical spit, but there are differences between them. Doner kebab is made of lamb or beef, usually minced I think, whereas gyros is made of strips of pork or chicken (though the chicken version is a quite recent one). And since Gordon Ramsay is also calling it gyros, I'm sticking with it!
As BampaOwl mentioned, kebab is a Turkish word, meaning roasted or grilled meat. In Greece what we refer to simply as kebab (κεμπάπ) is something like a sausage-shaped burger on a skewer. We also have doner kebab (ντονέρ κεμπάπ, or more often just ντονέρ), shish kebab (σις κεμπάπ) which is similar to souvlaki (σουβλάκι) but made of lamb, and tas kebab (τας κεμπάπ) which is a beef stew.
Just a small info: Turkish "döner" means "rotating" in English and "γύρος" in Greek.
That's great Nezih! I had never guessed that. "Döner" even sounds like "turner"! And "γύρος" also should be obvious. (Gyroscope and the rest.)
Kebab is a Turkish word. You can call it a kebab if you wish, but in Greece, speaking English, I would use gyro.
Except that if you go into a take-away in the UK and ask for a "gyro", no-one will know what you're talking about
Depends on whether the staff are Greek, Turkish or otherwise! And I did say "in Greece".
Well, do they have it but call it someway else, or is it that they don't have it at all? Indeed, I know that gyros is much more popular in the US. There are very few Greek restaurants in the UK, and even less Greek takeaways. If you go into a takeaway here in Greece and ask for a tikka masala, or a chow mein, they will look at you as if you were an alien! The Indian takeaways and the Chinese ones here are a very small minority in relation to the others, but in UK, tikka masala and chow mein are considered two of the most popular takeaway dishes. If you expect to find gyros in a kebab takeaway, you won't of course, but neither you'll find sushi in a fish and chips shop, nor ratatouille in an Italian restaurant...
Look, we can go on about it ad nauseam, but it really isn't worth it... Bottom line, you can certainly call it any way you like. So call it kebab if you want, just, don't expect to eat anything made of pork, otherwise you're definitely in for a big surprise.
Some very minor remarks: kebab is arabic. in turkish it is spelled kebap. in hungary all the turkish and kurdish restaurants call it gyros, although it is chicken. in germany i guess it is döner kebap. In both countries, and we can add Turkey to this list, it is more or less possible to find gyros and other types of kebabs in the same place. Perhaps not in Greece. It is interesting to see such nuances, but I guess they are not terribly relevant to the translation work, right? =)
In Germany, usually just "Döner" if it's a Turkish place.
There are a few Greek places as well and they would sell "Gyros".
Listening exercises for alphabet is inconsistent. kappa exercise accepts κ but rejects καππα and Delta exercise accepts δελτα and rejects δ. το κακό κ exercise rejects καππα and only accepts κ but το καλό ταυ exercise rejects τ and accepts only ταυ. There are several others as well.
In Adjectives 1 it asks you to translate 'What is What's his real name'. A similar or perhaps the same sentence (sorry I can't remember exactly) comes up as a multiple choice question with three possible Greek answers. I came across both of these in a strengthening lesson in Adjectives 1 so I cannot say which lesson they are from.
From Conjunctions lesson 1 Translate: Αυτοί διαβάζουν όταν εμείς διαβάζουμε. They read when we read. (correct) They are reading when we are reading. (correct) They read when we are reading. (wrong) They are reading when we read. (?)
In Philosophy Lesson 2 there is a typo: Αυτός δεν είναι πεσιμιστής,είναι σκεπτικιστής. i.e. there is no space between πεσιμιστής, and είναι. If you enter the correct format with the space, it is marked 'almost correct'.
Hi there i also noticed a minor problem. (Sorry if this is a repeat, this thread is too long i couldn't check all) in practicing verbs 2 for maybe the tenth time, i came up to one listening exercise that just stops towards the end of the sentence. It's Η Eλένη παίρνει το καπέλο (της) but we don't hear the της part. Bests
Yes, thank you danende. We are aware of that error and have reported it. The audio is one of the main issues that Duo will deal with before we go to the new tree. Your report is appreciated.
Ευχαριστώ για την απάντηση Jaye. I feel there might be a general problem with strenghtening verbs pr 2, probably related to duo itself. i am never able to get those strength bars full in that course no matter how much i repeat the practice. Keeps giving the same examples, "εμείς δουλεύουμε", "πιστεύουμε αυτά τα παιδιά"... And even if i make no mistakes that last bar never fills up. Could also be because i do the course from my mobile...
And yes the Strengthen skills is another troublesome area. We find that some of our edits are not available and things we've added are not accepted as correct. And again that has also been reported. Now, I see a new glitch you mention. Which skill is this in? I'm not saying we'll correct it now but we can have it on the list. I have no idea if the mobile has anything to do with the problem but we still must look into it. thanks for the input.
It happens in repeating present tense verbs 2.
I am now around past 2 and abstract objects, I have many skills behind that of course need constant strenghtening but this is the only one that's "stuck" in the need to be strenghtened :)
I could check with my laptop to see whether it's because I always do the courses on my mobile, but the laptop is sooo crappy old I just can't download the keyboard app. :)
(one more thing about studying from the mobile: notices on the discussion pages don't take you to where the relevant comment is. I suppose this is also about duolingo in general; it's quite difficult to follow long threads of discussion and I also couldn't get the add new thread buttons to work... I hope having a mobile app will solve it)
anyway I loved this system and I loved this course you're creating!
Hello! It is not only on mobile, I have the same trouble from my Chrome on Linux. Looks like more generic problem. Thanks!
It would be nice that the "Refresh" option didn't automatically take us back to the alphabet. The alphabet is done well and is easy to learn by getting used to in throughout all the lessons. But whenever I want to do some general review it takes me back to the alphabet, which is a bit of a pain.
It's simply a Duolingo thing to start at the very top when Strengthening; there's nothing the course creators can do about it.
I have just started learning Greek. I am learning it for a friend of me and my moms and I personally think it to be hard! This really help and I thank you for this.
Thank you for making this course! I have wanted to learn Greek for a long time as I am interested in the culture, and so far I love it! Thank you so much
Thank you that means a lot. We are still correcting and editing the sentences.
Of course it's not perfect and still needs work, but just the fact that you made this is amazing, so thank you (here's a lingot for your hard work)
Hi! Im really loving the course so far, and I think it is great that you started off with learning the alphabet, as I couldnt seem to find a Greek course before that started in this way. I seem to be having a major problem that is stopping me from progressing though. In Lesson 4 of the Basics section, there is one question that is the only (as I'm aware) 'What does this sound like?' question. The answer is iota, but no matter what, when you type iota into the box it says you were incorrect, even though just underneath it says that the correct answer is in fact iota. This question continuosly comes up as the last question of Lesson 4 and it stops you from progressing. Im really itching to learn more from your course and I hope that this problem could be fixed soon (even if it might just be my computer). Thanks!
Edit: Not the Basics section, the ABC section, my apologies.
I didn't know there is such a glitch. I tried the skill and I don't have any problem. Please, try again and if it is incorrect for one more time, type yiota instead of iota.
Hi! Just a quick bug I found: instead of εγώ translating to "I" in the helper pop-up (which is the correct answer) it translates to "I am going" or "I will eat" in the early lessons. Thanks!!
Do you recall which unit it was in? So, I can find it and see what I can fix.
I think I found it but as I said it would go a long way if we had some more information.
Ένα σημαντικό πρόβλημα που παρατήρησα είναι ότι δεν χρησιμοποιείτε ο διπλός τόνος σε φράσεις όπως πχ. το ποδήλατό μου (δεν θυμάμαι ακριβώς την λέξη)
Ισχύει! Δυστυχώς στην βασική ελληνική πρόταση δεν μπορούσαμε να το προσθέσουμε. Το έχουμε προσθέσει ως εναλλακτική, ώστε να είναι αποδεκτό, αλλά οι χρήστες θα βλέπουν την ελληνική πρόταση χωρίς τον διπλό τόνο.
Α, είνει λογώ του ότι μπορεί κανείς να συνθέσει προτάσεις μόνο από λέξεις που ήδη βρίσκονται στο μάθημα, και "ποδήλατο" είναι λέξη γνωστή στο σύστημα αλλά "ποδήλατό" όχι;
Τότε, μήπως μπορείτε να προσθέσετε λέξεις τύπου "ποδήλατό" κλπ (όταν ξεκλειδωθεί το δέντρο); Γιατί είναι γεγονός ότι όπως είναι γραμμένο τώρα είναι λάθος, και ακόμη χειρότερα, διαβάζεται και με λάθος τονισμό από το σύστημα.
Hi! I'm sorry if this has already been pointed out, but I noticed on the first Tips & Notes page (ABC lesson) that you have a section called Diphthongs, and underneath is a list of consonant clusters. Diphthongs are double vowels, not consonants, so this error could confuse learners. The section you have labeled 'Double Vowels' is actually talking about diphthongs.
Oh, you are so right. And at this point, we cannot edit the Notes (there's a lot I'd like to add) I hope the idea gets across that the two letters are pronounced as one and we can correct the name at a later point. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. We're picking up a lot of tips from the community and appreciate it very much.
If you are keeping a running track of items to correct in the notes sections, here is one more. In the "Events" module, you will want to change "whose name you bare" to "whose name you bear". :) It might also be better to use the phrase "date varies" to convey the concept that some holidays do not have a set date.
I must commend you for your positive responses to all who have submitted comments in the Discussion area. Your professionalism and openness to feedback is greatly appreciated! Kudos to the entire Greek team.
Oh, that is one of my super best fails. And as you know there's no way to fix it until the next revision. Thanks for letting me know. Yes, "date varies" is so much better than "movable holiday" (paraphrasing Hemingway :)). We are grateful for all comments from the community helping us clear up all these errors. It's also great to know people are interested enough in the course to want to improve it. Good luck on the course and keep up the feedback. Γεια σου.
I'm going to say yes, with a bit of fear. I think I added it to every sentence I could find. Just hope I haven't missed any. For which I apologize in advance.
I added it to this page. That's the problem άντρας" is not found only in one unit. We've reviewed all the sentences for any kind of error or omission and there are always more. sorry again.
No worries. I am really surprised by the amount of Greek words that may be spelt (see what I did there) in more than one way. μιλάω - μιλώ, άνδρας - άντρας, βρόμικος - βρώμικος, κάρρο - κάρο, ρακέτα - ρακέττα, σπρώχνω - σμπρώχνω, μπάλλα - μπάλα, σκίζω - σχίζω and probably a ton more αι - ε and other types of alternative spellings.
And although μια does not get marked as an error but a typo, it would be nice to make it into an alternative (I know there is a tiny difference between the two in terms of emphasis).
This is a sentence from Abstract Objects:
Δεν έχω πρόβλημα μαζί σου.
I translated it as 'I don't have a problem with you' but this answer was marked wrong. The correct answer given is 'I have no problem with you', which doesn't sound quite right for this sentence.
Could we have δεκαεννέα added to Numbers as it only seems to recognize δεκαεννιά at the moment? Δεκαεννέα was marked as wrong in one of the exercises. Sorry, I can't remember the sentence for this one.
Ok, what happened was we had: "I do not have...." and left off the "don't" I've added it just now. Sorry, your translation was correct and should have been accepted and would have been if the sentences had been complete. "I have no problem with." is correct also.
I checked the ‘review lesson’ for a (failed) practice on food, but the correct answer for ‘The onion is not a fruit’ came transliterated. While it is indeed still easier for me to read than the original Greek, I do not think it is as easy to hammer into my memory the iotized modern Greek spelling.
I've made several attempts to get to the bottom of this problem. Before I go on I need to know.
Did you use transliteration in your responses or did you use Greek characters?<
After I receive your reply I'll look into this more closely.
Thanks for the prompt answer.
I did not use transliteration. But it is very common that I start an answer in Latin characters due to forgetting to try to switch the keyboard configuration or due to getting the keyboard switch combination wrong, but as far as I remember I never sent an answer in Latin characters by mistake.
If you need any information more, please ask. For what it‘s worth, I am running the latest versions of both Firefox and Mac OS X, but with an IBM Model M keyboard in the US layout; it is configure for Extended Latin (for my native Brazilian Portuguese) and for modern (non-polytonic) Greek. I switch between them with the Command+Space keybar combination.
In Verbs: Present 1 Tips and notes, there is ‘δίνω-to drink’ in the first phrase of the third paragraph. Should it be ‘to give’ instead?
OMG. Indeed it is not correct. "δίνω" is to give, and thank you miziamo for another possibility: "πινω" to drink. And thank you lfd for catching it and reporting it. I'll try to correct it asp. And an aside to lfd I've sent your problem about receiving transliterated replies in the Review section to the other team members for a more accurate explanation and possible alteration of the process. Transliteration was recently added so still needs work. Again thank you.
My husband and would like to add Greek to our language list as we plan on visiting Greece next May for the first time. Yay! But I can't figure out how to join your Beta experience. Is it possible for us to start learning Greek? If not, what's your estimated release from Beta date. We are very excited and so proud of the work you all are doing!
Yes, it's an open beta, so anyone may join.
Go to https://www.duolingo.com/course/el/en/Learn-Greek-Online and click on "Start Course" near the top :)
When a course leaves beta is determined by Duo HQ; I'm not sure whether the course volunteers get told much in advance. It also depends on the quality of the course as measured by problem reports, I think, and this is a point which is hard to predict (what will students have problems with? what alternatives have we forgotten?).
Just a general observation that may be unfair, due to a deficiency mine, but it is how I see it. And I guess it is Duolingo’s, not the team’s, issue; but to me it seems recordings are not distinct enough. In some recordings I here ε where it is written α, ε where it is written η, and α where it is written αι. Is there any chance recordings could be made better any time soon? If not, I fear I am loosing my time trying to follow something which is too confusing for me.
Just a quick question, when will the course be added to the mobile application? It's pretty good on the browser but I was wondering if maybe the course had to graduate from beta or something else first? Thanks!
Usually it is a few weeks for the next Duolingo application update, much before graduation from beta.
Χαίρετε, Great to finally have this, been waiting for ages - thanks for all the work. Just started a few lessons and noticed that the keyboard switching is awkward. It would be easier if each lesson used EITHER greek characters OR english characters.
If I remember correctly, that is how English for Greek learners works. Each lesson is either greek input or english input, so that you minimise the amount of keyboard switching within a lesson which is unavoidably clumsy on desktop and mobile platforms. The only time you need to toggle is at the beginning and end of lessons.
Your suggestion has been put forward before but thus far no changes have been made. May I ask what kind of keyboard you have. I just accessed mine on windows and changing is by pressing alt+shift. I must admit I avoid Timed practice but otherwise have no problem. I hope you like the course and find it fruitful. We are still in Beta and there's a lot of polishing up to be done. All suggestions from users are welcome and helpful. Thanks again for your interest.
I also use MS Windows, but also Mac OS X and MS Windows. Each has a different keystroke combination for shifting keyboards, which can be configured uniformly across all three but is bothersome. Anyway, timed practice becomes unusable indeed.
I use an Android tablet for DL Greek - it's not a lot of trouble to switch keyboards, and as far as I am concerned no need to reconfigure the lessons. I never have the courage to use timed practice, in any language!
I'm using a mac (desktop). Switching language keyboards is an inconvenience because it is two clicks to change from english to greek, and then two clicks to change back again, personally I find it interrupts the flow of the lesson and I often start typing in greek (when english is needed) or in english (when greek is needed) as I've forgotten to set the language setting appropriately.
Its a similar problem on mobiles (that will only apply when greek makes it out of beta), its an annoying distraction in what has otherwise been a very useful course so far.
I find the Apple Mac behaviour less confusing than the MS Windows one, since it give me better visual feedback and does not cause a menu activation by mistake. But I guess I should just configure all my desktops to behave as similarly as possible.
Actually the next non-minor update of Duolingo should have Greek already. The last one, 3.5.2, was only for bug fixes; I expect 3.6 or 4.0 to include Greek, and that could happen in a few weeks.
Here are two more sentences which I think need some tweaking:
From Nature Lesson 6 'There is sand on the beach' I translated it as υπάρχει άμμος στην παραλία but I was marked 'almost correct'. The 'correct' version had no accents i.e. υπαρχει αμμος στην παραλια
In Abstract Objects, I translated the sentence 'The child goes to a strange place' as Το παιδί πάει σε ένα ξένο μέρος but I was marked wrong because I didn't use πηγαίνει instead of πάει
In Education the sentence 'What is a lecture?' is translated as τι είναι η διάλεξη; but surely this means 'What is the lecture?' τι είναι μία διάλεξη; is marked as a wrong translation.
In Numbers Ένα κουτάλι ζάχαρη είναι αρκετό is translated as 'One spoonful of sugar is enough' whereas the equally common in English 'One spoon of sugar is enough' is marked wrong.
In Directions the sentence Το λεωφορείο είναι δίπλα στη μοτοσικλέτα. is translated as 'The bus is next to the motorcycle' but the translation 'The bus is beside the motorcycle' is marked wrong.
Finally there is a typo in this sentence, which I think comes from Adjectives-inflexion, it has a full stop instead of a space: Το πιο μεγάλο.σπίτι
Among the accepted translations for: "What is a lecture?" I find [Τί/Τι] είναι [μια/μία] διάλεξη; although *"Tι είναι η διάλεξη;" is also correct standard Greek.
Regarding "spoon" and "spoonful" I was so sure we had included both but now that I look I see "spoon" was not. My apologize, I've added it and thanks for the input.
I've also added "beside the motorcycle.
I can't find "Το πιο μεγάλο.σπίτι" but I'll keep looking.
Input such as yours is extremely helpful and very much appreciated. Please let us know anywhere we have fallen short and ask any questions and of course your observations in general. Many thanks.
να does not belong in the Tips and notes section of the Prepositions skill since it's a particle.
Can i make an improvement suggestion? In the ABC section there is a alphabet table but the greek names of letters are missing; that would be helpful while learning. Below is what i gathered from ABC section. (I am not a greek speaker, sorry if i made a mistake)
Upper Case- English Greek Nearest Lower Case Name Name pronunciation Α-α Alpha άλφα A like Ant Β-β Veeta βήτα V like Vase Γ-γ Gama γάμα ɣ like Woman Δ-δ Delta δέλτα ð like THe Ε-ε Epsilon έψιλον E like Element Ζ-ζ Zeeta ζήτα Z like Zoo Η-η Eeta ήτα EE like sEE Θ-θ Theeta θήτα TH like THing Ι-ι Iota γιώτα EE like sEE Κ-κ Kapa κάππα K like Cow Λ-λ Lambda λάμδα L like Lemon Μ-μ Mee μι M like Mother Ν-ν Nee νι N like North Ξ-ξ Ksee ξι X like foX Ο-ο Omicron όμικρον O like Organ Π-π Pee πι P like Pet Ρ-ρ Rho ρο R like Rhapsody Σ-σ/ς Sigma σίγμα S like Sit Τ-τ Taf ταυ T like Table Υ-υ Ypsilon ύψιλον EE like sEE Φ-φ Fee φι F like PHilosopher Χ-χ Chee χι H like Hurry Ψ-ψ Psee ψι PS like liPStick Ω-ω Omega ωμέγα O like Organ
That is very well done and appreciated. I thought we might add a page very similar to yours from one of the grammar links: Let me know how you find it?
Thank you first for noticing it and for going to such lengths to construct the full alphabet.
I was wondering about practicing new words. The spanish cource has something called "flashcards" were the card says a word and you have to guess what it means, in your mind, when you think you know you click the card and it tells you the translation. After that you click, at the bottom of the card, if you were right ot wrong. All new words are added to the list of flashcards and you can go in and practice whenever. I was wondering if there are any plans to make a similiar system for the greek cource? If not I hope something similiar gets added. Thanks for your effort and good luck in the future καλή τύχη
That's not a question the Greek team can answer; it's up to the Duolingo people.
As far as I know, flashcards are (officially) available only to a small handful of courses (the "in-house" ones): German, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, perhaps one or two others.
All the others (including Greek) use a different system which does not (officially) include flashcards.
In Present Perfect there are two sentences which I think need additional options:
He played and he has won 'Επαιξε και έχει νικήσει is correct but Αυτός έπαιξε και έχει νικήσει is wrong
Similarly: He hasn't heard you Δεν σε έχει ακούσει is correct but Αυτός δεν σε έχει ακούσει is wrong
In Nature there is a small accent typo in this sentence: Το άσπρο βουνό είναι πίσω από το ωραίο ποτάμι The accent appears on the α of ωραίο
Thank you so much for bringing the greek course alive! I have been eagerly awaiting for it to release since March!
I have a question: I seem to constantly spell greek words wrong (either when translating from english or from listening exercises) because of the various ways to write certain pronunciations. As an example, the sound "ee" as in "sEE" can be made with: the letter Η-η, the letter Ι-ι, the letter, Υ-υ, the dipthong ΕΙ-ει, the dipthong ΟΙ-οι, the dipthong ΥΙ-υι (but this one can also be "ee-ee").
Together that is six total ways to pronounce "ee" and i never know which one to use. Do i simply have to memorize the words to know? Or is there a trick? I noticed that η comes after λ more often than ι but not necessarily more often than υ. I also get this confusion with o/ω but not as often since there are only two and not six variants.
Unfortunately you will have to memorise the spellings :( There are some rules, but otherwise every word comes with its own spelling. Rules are for example, feminine words ending in ee use η, neutral words use ι or υ, verbs use ει. However, when you see a word that ends in one of those it does not mean it is feminine, neutral or a verb respectively!
ahh, very confusing! I am lucky english is my native language because i realize there are many tricky words in English as well.
Thanks for the response!
I have got as far as the Medical unit and so far there is only one unit that I have found rather difficult, Pronouns relative. The difficulty was understanding the use of the different cases of ο οποίος and its declensions. Although I feel that I have a good understanding of cases, this unit was still quite a challenge. The difficulty was understanding when to use genitive and accusative, as it isn't always as obvious as in other sentences. I have revisited it several times to gain a fuller understanding and I think it makes sense now - 'whose' will usually mean genitive e.g. 'the cat whose colour is brown'. Nominative and accusative are not always so obvious though, there is one sentence where 'the woman' is both the subject and the object because of the use of είδα at the end (sorry I cannot remember the actual sentence). Perhaps you could add some notes for this unit, as I am sure that other people will also find it difficult. I am very grateful for the word που as an alternative to using ο οποίος but of course it is important to understand it.
There is one sentence that I am unsure about: 'This is the guard whom I talked to.' Two correct answers are given: Αυτός είναι ο φύλακας με τον οποίον μίλησα. and Αυτός είναι ο φύλακας τον οποίον μίλησα. Is the second one a correct answer? Or should it be του instead of τον ?
For the most part you've got it. Που is the equivalent of "that", so you can use it wherever you could use "that" (for example, you can't use "που" in a non-definining relative clause, like you can't use "that" either). "Whose" is the possesive of "who" and "which" so, as you said, you'll translate it using the genitive case του οποίου(masc.), της οποίας(fem.), του οποίου(neut.) and των οποίων(plural; m., f. & n.).
About the nominative and the accusative, it is quite simple actually but it becomes complicated because nowadays it is considered acceptable to use "who" even when it's referring to an object. If you stick to the old rule where you should always use "whom" for the object of the clause, then "who" is always translated using the nominative ο οποίος(m.), η οποία(f.), οι οποίοι(m. pl.) and οι οποίες(f. pl.), and "whom" is always translated using the accusative τον οποίο(m.), την οποία(f.), τους οποίους(m. pl.) and τις οποίες(f. pl.). The use of neutral το οποίο(sing.) and τα οποία(pl.) is simple, it always translates into "which", and stays the same both in nominative and accusative case.
As for the sentence that baffled you, to me it was given in Greek "Αυτές είναι οι γυναίκες τις οποίες είδα." and I had to translate it in English, "These are the women whom I saw" which was marked correct. Was it given to you in English, and with the alternative "who" instead of "whom"? I checked the hint on "οποίες". It doesn't take into account the acticle that shows the case in which is the word, and suggests only "who" (should either be hinted together with the article, or at least contain "whom" - I've reported it), and I suspect that even though they use "who" for "whom", they may haven't added the article on the hint, (which in the feminine is the only thing that shows whether it's in nominative or in accusative), or may even have left out both masculine and feminine types in the accusative case completely, so I can see how that can be confusing. Anyway, I think that what puzzled you is that you mistook "women" for subject. In this sentence, there are actually two clauses. In the first one "Αυτές είναι οι γυναίκες"/"These are the women"(or maybe it was "they" in yours, idk), "αυτές"/"these"(or "they") is the subject and "οι γυναίκες"/"the women" is the predicative, but it's actually the second clause that conserns us. This clause "τις οποίες είδα"/"whom (or who) I saw" is a relative one. The subject here is actually "εγώ"/"I" which in the Greek sentence is only implied by the form of the verb "είδα" (1st person, singular, simple past of the verb "βλέπω"), and the object is "(τις) γυναίκες"/"women" of the first clause. That's why we have the relative pronoun in accusative.
Lastly, about the sentence you're unsure of, the second answer is indeed incorrect, a preposition is actually missing from this sentence. The first given answer literally translates to "This is the guard with whom I talked". The literal translation of the given sentence should be "Αυτός είναι ο φύλακας στον οποίο μίλησα" (preposition σε + article τον = στον). Also, I believe that in the English sentence, the preposition "to" should be more properly placed before "whom" rather than after the verb, but I think it is also correct as it is. To do what you proposed, replace "τον" with "του", you would also have to put the pronoun in genitive to match the article, and then the sentence would be "Αυτός είναι ο φύλακας του οποίου μίλησα." ("This is the guard whose I talked (to)."). The Greek sentence may not sound as awkward as the English one, but is still quite unnatural and, more importantly, the meaning of the sentence changes completely (This is the guard of the man I talked to).
One very last note, to avoid confusion. There are some words/expressions, mostly archaic or scholarly, that are followed by the relative pronoun in genitive case. In this occasion the expression should be translated as a whole and, more often than not, the pronoun in the translation isn't "whose".
Well, that's about it! I hope I helped a bit to clear things up, though I'm afraid I may have caused a further mix-up.
P.S. There are a couple more relative pronouns (e.g. όποιος/-α/-ο [whoever, whichever]) that are not covered in the course I think. The above rules mostly apply to them as well.
I have found some more sentences which I think may need some additional or altered answers added:
From Gerund: Translate: Του κοριτσιού του αρέσει να τρώει τσίζκεικ. The girl likes to eat cheesecakes. (correct) The girl likes eating cheesecake. (wrong)
Translate: Do you like eating the orange? Σου αρέσει να τρως πορτοκάλι; (correct) Σου αρέσει να τρως το πορτοκάλι; (wrong)
Translate: He likes talking Του αρέσει να μιλά (correct) Του αρέσει να μιλάει (wrong)
From Travel: Translate: I will go to Australia εγώ θα πάω στην αυστραλία (correct) θα πάω στην αυστραλία (wrong)
From Education: Translate: Lecture η διάλεξη (correct) Διάλεξη (wrong)
Danial I really need to see these in context. Can you give me the units they were in. We always appreciate your insightful input so please let us know where these are.
You did and I apologize reading this I looked again. I'll find the sentences and get back to you. Again sorry.
Cheesecake corrected. We had numerous post about how to spell τσίζκεικ in Greek and others on the strange construction: του κοριτσιού του αρέσει να τρώει τσίζκεικ. And that parasitic "s" remained hidden. Thanks for the heads up.
Yes, Σου αρέσει να τρως το πορτοκάλι. has been added.
Του αρέσει να μιλά. Του αρέσει να μιλάει. Both are correct and will be added to acceptable sentences.
: Needless to say both: θα πάω στην Αυστραλία, and εγώ θα πάω στην αυστραλία are correct. That was a huge gaffe.
There are three sentences with διάλεξη. I think you might mean. Τι είναι η διάλεξη; which can also be : Τι είναι διάλεξη;
Sorry, for the delay. Thanks for your interest in sending these to us. It helps a great deal to weed out the errors.
Hello! First of all, thank you so much for creating this course. I've been waiting for it for months and I'm so happy about taking it now :) I agree with most comments below about the ABC section. It is a bit confusing and tedious to get through it. I see several possibilities to improve it for learners. First one could be to make the ABC unit optional (I already knew most of the alphabet before starting the course, even though I am a real beginner in greek) so we could skip it or at least not have it coming back in the "Strengthen skills" exercises. Otherwise, you could keep it as mandatory, but remove the "n nee", "v veeta" type of sentences from the unit, as they are more confusing than helping, and just use basic nouns (like flower, sky, tree, school, house, country, company, sun, people, city, friend...) instead of "bullhorn" and "torch" :) It would be more encouraging to get started! Really the ABC unit is my only frustration. The rest of the course is great so far and I can't wait to learn more. Thanks to all volunteers for the huge amount of time you're putting into this! I hope to learn greek good enough to help translate this course as a FR-EL course next year :D Cheers, Sandra
[quote] at least not have it coming back in the "Strengthen skills" exercises
+1. I'd like to get rid of that, too!
In the Tips and Notes of the unit "Verbs:Past 1", I think the Past Singular should be (αυτός/η/ο) έφαγε instead of (αυτοί/ες/α) τρώνε, which corresponds to the third Person Plural Present Tense.
Thank you SiviuBobaru I'll see if I can edit it. We're grateful for you input.
Thank you for all the hard work and the time you all put in making this course available. It is also a great way to learn the language through the responses you gave us in the comments of each lesson. It makes learning greek somehow easier and more interactive. I also appreciate your devotion in making it perfect.
It looks like Duolingo is having trouble with English plural genitive words ending with s' - it keeps marking them as "Almost correct" and then offering the answer I give as "Another correct solution".
See https://twitter.com/pedantic_git/status/782499131566751744 for an example.
Thank you Rich we are aware of this failing and correct all that we find. It would be best if you gave comments on the thread for the sentence involved. That way we can see the problem and correct it straightaway.
Here are a couple of more sentences I came across:
From Materials Lesson 2 Translate: Αυτό είνα το φθηνότερο διαμάντι. This is the cheapest diamond. (correct) It is the cheapest diamond. (wrong)
From Determiners Translate: Εμείς διαβάζουμε όλα τα βιβλία. We read all the books. (correct) We read all of the books. (wrong)
I'm getting strange translations of text when I hover my mouse over greek text. E.g. attached, the phrase Οι γραβάτες του when I hover the mouse over the word του the translation is "the animal's orange" screenshot here https://www.flickr.com/photos/dullhunk/29459771113
If you could remember which unit this was in it would help a great deal. You should have explained this in the "Report a problem" section on the exercise page. Then we would have immediate access to it.. This sounds like a glitch or bug and I'm anxious to get to the bottom of it. Thank you very much for telling us. And please give me the unit otherwise it will take me some time to find it. Thanks for the screenshot it is a help.
I can't be certain which unit it was because I just hit the "strengthen skills" button on my homepage and don't pay too much attention to which unit I'm on. The "activity" section doesn't seem to log everything I do. There's a reasonable chance it was plurals, although sometimes the strengthen skills combines two units together. I spotted another one like this before but didn't log it. If I find any more, I'll submit them via the "report problem" button
You've helped a lot actually. We've had other issues with strengthen skills and want to report them. Just knowing it was in the vicinity of "plurals" will help; it cuts down the area to search a lot. In addition to the report a problem button, it would be good to also post it in the comments at the bottom of the page. That gives us the possibility to interact and get more information.
Ok, I've found it. The Incubator is ok, no sign of parasitic vocab. now I'll have to get to the strengthen skills section. At least we've found out the unit. Again thanks.
Just some feedback on the structure of the Greek course. Forgive me if I have missed something.
Only having three test out levels as thresholds is a bit tough as it requires each quiz to be very lengthy to cover a lot of ground - there must be at least 30 questions in the first test out level quiz and only three hearts!
Greek is more difficult than say Italian or French, and it seems to me that this onerous test out structure will discourage more than encourage.
Having more test out levels that allow more achievable thresholds would make the course easier to complete.
It is a while since I have done the French and Italian courses, but if I recall correctly the quizzes are much shorter and better paced. Also the hearts to questions ratio is much more generous!
Tips and Notes for https://www.duolingo.com/skill/el/Education is badly formatted in the first paragraph:
Ο δάσκαλος and η δασκάλα are the male...
*Ο δάσκαλος** and η **δασκάλα** are the male...
Should probably be
Ο δάσκαλος and η δασκάλα are the male...
**Ο δάσκαλος** and **η δασκάλα** are the male...
That is, the first asterisk should be doubled, and the double asterisk before δασκάλα should be moved before η.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't know how to access to the course and start learning,. can someone help me with that?
Oh, it's not ignorance Duo does have some tricky parts. Ok, go to your picture at the top (nice picture btw) click on that and you'll get a list of the languages you are learning now: LEARNING Greek level 11 Russian level 6 Portuguese level 1 Add a new course
At the end you'll see Add a new course which you click on to get a choice of new courses. If you have any problems come back for more information. Best wishes on your new course.
Ooooh thank you! It was very easy actually! Thank for your comment about my pic haha
hello filip, i have been doing the course from my mobile phone without any apps since i began it few weeks ago. I just go to the duolingo site from the regular chrome browser and works fine.
Thanks for replying. I know that and I too have been doing that for a few weeks. That’s a pretty good temporary solution, but it has some shortcomings. For some reason I can’t test out a single unit, I don’t get to redo the sentences that I got wrong, etc. Well, I’m happy for now and I know the course is coming to mobile soon. I just can’t wait. :D
Not yet I'm afraid. But the following by "danende" is enticing. I'm going to give it a try.
Hello! Thank you for a great job. I'm experiencing an issue with strengthening "Verbs part two" lesson - it stays on the four marks from the previous week. When I'm trying to strengthen it, it gives me the same set of questions every time and does not update my strength bar there. All other lessons are working correctly. Should I write this in some other topic? Thank you!
:)) I have exactly the same problem with the same lesson and just reported it here yesterday. do you also use duolingo on your mobile? i tried to REDO (not "practice") the parts of that lesson to avoid getting the same questions. then you get different questions of course, but still the bars don't fill up (I get 4 bars strenghtened)
Hi again. I think the same problem also occurs in strenghtening "past 1" lesson. the bars don't fill up, it's strenghten-resistant. and repeatşng the same examples: "we stayed together forever." "what did you eat today?"
Thank you so much for this course! It's great, now I can write (and read) Greek.
Learning the language itself in duolingo is not that easy, though.
The two basic verbs "to have" and "to be" are too difficult. Would it be possible to add two modules in the basic part of the course, right after the letters -- one for "to have" and one for "to be"?
First of all, thank you for your kind words and it's so good to hear you've progressed in your learning. Your suggestion for additional modules for "to have" and "to be" is very wise indeed and we will take it into consideration when the new tree is released. Thank you very much for your contribution to the improvement of the course. From the whole team our wishes for a very Happy New Year and learning more on Duo.
Hi everyone! I have been doing this course for a while now, it's a great learning tool on the side while I also take a Modern Greek course. One thing I have noticed is that for some reason the Present Verbs 2 bar never seems to fill up when I strengthen it! I have just strengthened three times in a row to see what happens, made no mistakes at all each time and still: not a single bar was filled up! Does this happen to others as well? It is very frustrating...
In similar situations I've seen people suggesting repeating the individual lessons rather than doing a strengthening exercise to fill the bars. Strengthening must be missing 'weak' words so the bars stay the same, but the lessons include all the vocabulary for the skill so it shouldn't be a problem.
This issue has been brought up before. The strengthen skills are prepared by the duobot over which the Greek team has no control. We have made repeated reports concerning errors to no avail.
I have just done the strengthen for present verbs 2 (without timer) and except for the listening exercise "Η Ελένη παίρνει το καπέλο της." in which the last word (της) is not heard on the audio there were no issues.
The audio for this sentence has been disabled for some time but the Duobot continues to use it.
It would be a help if you could tell use just where you get held up. What kind of exercise is it: Greek to English, English to Greek, listening etc and which sentences, in particular, are involved?
We can only report them and hope the system accepts the changes. Your assistance is appreciated. As D_.. points out an alternative to the Strengthen skills is to repeat the exercise in the unit in which case you will have access to all the sentences.
There are a set number of sentences and the more often you repeat the lesson the more complex they become until you have done all the sentences contained in the incubator. It's a method practiced by other learners to great success.
Hoping we can resolve the problems and wishing you good luck in all your learning and a very Happy New Year from all the team.