"Το κρεμμύδι δεν είναι φρούτο."

Translation:The onion is not a fruit.

September 1, 2016

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/RaleighStarbuck

I obviously realize that "το κρεμμύδι" is "THE onion," but the definite article is almost always omitted in English in copular sentences about general truths (e.g. "Life is hard," "Horses are fast," "Trees are plants," etc.). I know many languages do not allow the omission of the article in these cases, but in Greek I am not sure, so my question is this: Is there a difference in meaning between "Το κρεμμύδι δεν είναι φρούτο" and "Kρεμμύδι δεν είναι φρούτο"? Is the first sentence referring to a specific onion? Is the second sentence ungrammatical?

September 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Theo_Matrakas

Κρεμμύδι δεν είναι φρούτο is wrong. Usually, subjects in Greek have definite articles!

September 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/RaleighStarbuck

I thought so, but thank you so much for confirming. All the same though, "Onion is not a fruit" should be accepted for the translation into English because in English "The onion is not a fruit" is ungrammatical (except in a circumstance when one is referring to a specific onion, but that would be very rare since all onions are not fruits, so to make the distinction between "onion" and "the onion" in this sentence sounds weird).

September 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Theo_Matrakas

You are right! Corrected :)

September 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
Mod

    But is "Onion is not a fruit" correct? "An onion is not a fruit" or "Onions are not fruit", sure. (Sorry for butting in, but I'm curious about what the correct English phrase is.)

    September 1, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/jcosham

    "Onions are not fruit" was marked as incorrect for me. I think that it should because usually the plural is just fruit rather than fruits.

    September 1, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/Theo_Matrakas

    The sentences of the Incubator are:

    • An onion is not a fruit (as best translation)

    • An onion [is not/isn't] [a/one/] fruit.

    • Onions are not fruits.

    Is there any mistake?

    September 1, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/daughterofAlbion

    Onions are not fruits is not correct. It should be Onions are not fruit. We only use the plural when more than one type of fruit is being discussed. Since there is only one item (the onion) "fruits" cannot be used here.
    Onions and potatoes are not fruits would be a possible sentence.

    January 9, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
    Mod

      (Too many nested comments, replying here.)

      The sentences of the Incubator all seem correct to me. Only "Onion is not a fruit" which I see above, I cannot believe is correct.

      The question though is (and I've noticed that in other sentence discussions too): you amend a sentence and its associated alternatives, but do the rest of us still see the original (with the mistake) in the sentence list? It may be fine when doing the lessons but the mistake is still the visible answer in the sentence discussions accessed via the forum. Which is obviously not ideal if non-contributors go through them trying to help.

      September 1, 2016

      https://www.duolingo.com/Theo_Matrakas

      I don't know exactly how the system works, but I think that if a mod/contributor change the best translation (which is the sentence that learners see), the new sentence will replace the old mistaken sentence automatically.

      Some hours ago, the English sentence in this discussion was The onion is not a fruit and now it is An onion is not a fruit

      September 1, 2016

      https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
      Mod

        I see the new translation now! So it takes a little time for the system to update the sentences - good to know. Thanks for your help!

        September 1, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/Theo_Matrakas

        :D

        P.S. I would like help with this sentence. I was confused :( ---> https://www.duolingo.com/comment/17472793

        September 1, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

        "The onion is not a fruit" is grammatical in both the specific and general sense. For the later, it is a higher register idiomatic use of the definite article to refer to an entire species: e.g. "The domestic cat is a member of the genus Felis." Obviously, this is a true statement about any individual housecat, but it is primarily a statement about the biological species Felis catus, just as "The onion..." would by default in this sentence refer to the entirety of Allium cepa.

        (Obviously, it needn't just be biological "species" for this structure to word: "The chair is a type of furniture" works just as well.)

        I have been curious to ascertain if the Greek had this particular nuance. I gather that the answer is no.

        October 4, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/EdGar983049

        In Κρεμμύδι is μμ pronounced like a double consonant or is it as if a single one?

        September 12, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/Evanna93

        As if a single one. Double μμ has nothing to do with the pronunciation , it's only a matter of orthography . :)

        September 12, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/EdGar983049

        Thanks

        September 12, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/Apogeotou

        Double consonants were pronounced in ancient Greek though.

        September 14, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/frankk1m

        As someone noted, they were pronounced in ancient Greek. Also, they are still pronounced in certain non-standard dialects of Greek, like Cypriot.

        September 20, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/_Dimitris_

        the situation in Cypriot is chaotic as they even pronounce like double consonants many single ones.

        September 23, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/frankk1m

        Interesting. I wonder whether this is a matter of standard orthography not reflecting historically geminate consonants or phonetic/phonological innovation.

        September 23, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/_Dimitris_

        All double consonants were pronounced as such in ancient Greek. For example ΑΛΛΑ was pronounced "HAL-LA" until late antiquity or early middle ages while today we pronounce it "ALA". So the answer to your question is that in standard modern Greek orthography reflects ancient pronunciation. It has remained unchanged since antiquity despite evolution in pronunciation the last 2400 years.

        September 24, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/frankk1m

        Yes, I meant the Cypriot pronunciations. I was wondering whether the geminates they produce contrary to what spelling might suggest are an innovation or holdover that just hasn't been preserved in the orthography.

        September 24, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/_Dimitris_

        All double consonants that are not indicated with a double letter in orthography are innovations. Otherwise they would be written with double letters.

        September 25, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/Lng52-._

        Should the accent be heard at beginning (or toward the end) for κρεμμύδι?

        October 13, 2016

        https://www.duolingo.com/droopop

        Surely if the onion needs an article, then so does fruit?

        January 9, 2017

        https://www.duolingo.com/_Dimitris_

        Φρούτο doesn't need it

        January 19, 2017

        https://www.duolingo.com/Victoria587638

        Why not?

        August 25, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/Huy_Ngo

        When I see κρεμμύδι (kremmydi), I'd assume that it means "cream".

        April 12, 2017

        https://www.duolingo.com/troll1995

        Cream is just κρέμα ;)

        April 12, 2017

        https://www.duolingo.com/pahash

        @Theo_Matrakas (to answer your question – no reply button available), as a native speaker, I can't make sense of "An onion is not one fruit." I would propose leaving out "one" altogether.

        January 2, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/Kaspermuje

        Onions are fruits though

        July 31, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
        Mod

          Onions are vegetables. :)

          July 31, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/DamarisAline

          I wrote „ The onion is no fruit“ why should this be incorrect?

          December 31, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/G.Georgopoulos

          Added now.

          January 1, 2019
          Learn Greek in just 5 minutes a day. For free.