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  5. "Οι τσέπες του μπουφάν."

"Οι τσέπες του μπουφάν."

Translation:The jacket's pockets.

September 2, 2016

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustinLefebvre

I'm not sure about this, but I believe "The coat's pockets" and "The jacket's pockets" should be accepted too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

Yes, indeed. I'll see if I can edit it. Yours sounds so much better. Ok, I included: The jacket's pockets. The jacket pockets. I'm afraid I didn't use coat which has a separate word. "παλτό". Thank you for your help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikdenB

What's the difference between a coat and a jacket? I use them interchangeably in English, why not in Greek? I'm sure there's some slight difference if you really know fashion, but most people, especially guys, don't anyways, so insisting on separating them just seems pedantic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

I know English usage can be a little loose, but I think that's just the result of lack of fashion awareness, mostly among men (like me). My wife has instructed me at times on the difference: a jacket stops at the waist or hips, while a coat descends to the knees or even the ankles.

I really don't think it's pedantic to differentiate them properly. The words are useful in their distinction, even if men don't always pay much attention. Let the topic be one of machinery or technical work instead of fashion, and one soon finds men insisting on the proper use of terminology. I would recommend that we be gracious in return.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anare_the_one

I totally agree to what you say sdr, just wonder if there is somebody who could explain to me the difference between: σακάκι, ζακέτα and μπουφάν? ;) (and of course all the three are different to παλτό!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

The problem is that these words are similar in various languages and that their usage changes over time and fashion. That's something we became very aware of when writing this skill. My best suggestion would be to Google the term and look at the images to see what each looks like.

This is how I know these garments in 2017 Greece. σακάκι the kind of jacket you have with a suit. It's made of fabric -- not knit--it has lapels and buttons in front.

ζακέτα This is knit and open in front with buttons or zipper. It might also be an athletic type top with an opening in front.

μπουφάν when I was growing up was the kind of top you might wear for skiing. It might be quilted and have buttons or a zipper. There could be a hood. In English we called these an anorak or a parka.

But nowadays almost any short winter top might be called a μπουφάν

Hope that helps and please do check the google images they helped us a lot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D_..
Mod
  • 63

In short: σακάκι = suit jacket, ζακέτα = cardigan and μπουφάν = puffy jacket. However, as these terms are used differently by English speakers around the world (even in Greek maybe for ζακέτα), I suggest performing an image search with the Greek terms. The results are pretty clear about which type of clothing is described by each term and you can also see how ζακετα is more variable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sam333312

This is fascinating, because I (a woman, fwiw) have never used that criteria for "jacket" vs "coat"- I consider the standard form of either one to stop around the hips. Where I live the main difference (although this is pretty loose, and a lot of people still use them interchangeably) is the heaviness/thickness- a jacket is lighter, best suited for autumn/spring when it's just chilly, but when it gets colder than that it's time to get out your thick winter coat! Also, what are called "coats" tend to have a hood as well, but "jackets" often don't. As far as the kind that go down to the knees, as far as I know most people just call that a "long coat", (and I think I've seen "peacoat"? And "trechcoat" but that has a distinctive style beyond the length.) I guess there's a regional difference in how the terms are defined?

Anyway, based on jaye16's comment below, it seems like μπουφάν covers both coat and jacket in my understandings of them!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daherkurt

How do i differentiate this "του" from the possesive one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daherkurt

Wait it is the same!.... is it?

(the genitive definite article, and the possesive pronoun)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/papageorge20

Here it's a genitive definite article. It can't be a possesive pronoun. However, there are cases were a distinction is required and we have to write τού (masc), τής (fem), τού (neut). One of very few cases one syllable words have an accent.

For example: Το παιδί του μιλάει: His kid talks (του is a possesive pronoun) Το παιδί τού μιλάει:The kid talks to him (τού is genitive personal pronoun)

In spoken greek, you would take a brief pause after του in the first sentence and one before τού in the second.

On top of that, we could also have Το παιδί του του μιλάει: His kid talks to him. (no accents, since the meaning is clear enough).

Tricky? ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarrenReiley

This is very helpful. Thanks How would one say: "The pockets of his coat" ? (This is how I translated the above sentence and got it wrong.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D_..
Mod
  • 63

The pockets of his coat = Οι τσέπες του μπουφάν του. (Italics indicating syntax, not translation)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marva441926

So Greek doesn't have a dative case? The genitive case is used for the indirect object?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard996961

That's right - Ancient Greek had one, but it's been merged with the genitive in Modern.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andy513478

Why is μπουφάν not declined to the genitive case here? is it because it ends on "άν" instead of "ο", "ι" or "μα"? :0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 232

It's an obvious loanword (that is, it doesn't have a greek ending) and those are not declined at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard996961

On mobile for Android, error message insists the correct answer is just "the pockets" - του μπουφάν is untranslated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Victoria587638

So would "Stan's pockets" be "Οι τσέπες του Σταν"?? Is του in this sentence used as a possessive or or as "of"??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

Yes, του here is possessive. But then so is "of" because it tells us who the pockets belong to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Victoria587638

Ευχαριστώ, jaye. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katoklima

It is common usage in English not to apostrophise 'jacket' (kind of treating it as a compound noun) ???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

Yes, we often use a noun as an adjective without the apostrophe, for example, a sports car, strawberry ice cream, the tennis ball etc. I've added "the jacket pockets" as an alternative. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeonAchill

Is jacket a masculine word? Confused as to why 'oi' and 'tou' are necessary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

The "οι τσέπες" the pockets is the feminine plural of "η τσέπή". "Του" is "of the". So, literally this is "The pockets of the jacket." which is also a correct translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MDR215875

this jackets/the jackets pockets . the difference please .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

You cannot use "this" because there is no word for "this" in the Greek sentence, That would be, "Οι τσέπες αυτού του μπουφάν.

You needed the apostrophe otherwise it is the plural of "jacket". So, you should have type: "The jacket's pockets."

But to be sure you always use the correct words you should always use the DRop Down Hints.

The jacket's pockets.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Allmann7

This sentence shouldn’t be in the ‘Clothing’ Skill. ‘του’ as a definite article hasn’t been introduced yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

"του" as a possessive pronoun was taught in the previous Skill Possessives. You'll find an explanation for it in the Tips & notes here:

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/el/Possessives/tips-and-notes

By Duolingo regulations we cannot use more than one new word in a sentence. So, aside from the word being taught all the other words must have been taught in previous Skills otherwise they will not be accepted by the database.

This will help you find other Tips & notes plus other helpful information. TIPS TO MAKE LEARNING EASIER + HOW TO REPORT A PROBLEM

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/22424028

This is the Greek Forum with more information. https://forum.duolingo.com/topic/936


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dasantman

Why is "μπουφάν" not in the genitive? Shouldn't it be "Οι τσέπες του μποθφαντος"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G.Georgopoulos

Loanwords are usually indeclinable in Greek.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blunder9

How is this not HIS jacket's pockets?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 232

Του μπουφάν=the jacket's. Here του is an article. Possessives come after the noun. Του μπουφάν του=his jacket's.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeatrixCudo

You know that according to the English grammar rules, you can use possessive case only with people. So the right answer is "the pockets of the jacket"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 321

What I teach is that we usually use the apostrophe with people and "of" with things. But that is not a hard and fast "rule". So,let's turn to Cambridge, and of course, there are other reliable sources, to see the usage.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/possession-john-s-car-a-friend-of-mine

There are some general rules about when to use ’s and when to use of but there are many cases where both are possible:

The film’s hero or The hero of the film
The car’s safety record or The safety record of the car
The report’s conclusion or The conclusion of the report

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