"These are tasty apples."
Translation:אלו תפוחים טעימים.
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hey Danny, thanks for your many replies on this topic in different threads. i think the difficulty with this concept in hebrew for english speakers is the fact that for the majority of english speakers there is no difference between, these apples are tasty, and, these are tasty apples. perhaps there is a difference to some english academics somewhere, but for the majority of english speakers learning hebrew, we will probably need to hear these two phrases used in different contexts to learn the difference in hebrew. if anyone knows of any resources to help with this please share.
Consider this comment from Janis558500. In a discussion of various books, you might say, “After all the books we have discussed, this book is my favorite.”
But in a discussion of things that make you happy, you may talk about different favorite things and finally get to “This is my favorite book.”
They might be equivalent to a point, but they are not exact equivalents. It's not just the order that is different. Most importantly, their grammatical function is different. In the first example אלה serves as a demonstrative pronoun and it becomes the focus of the sentence. The second example אלה becomes a determiner a points to the apples which become the focus of the sentence.
After spending some time in the forum and after reading hundreds of posts by frustrated English speakers saying the same thing josephjq is saying, I've come to realize that English language has lost the grammatical nuances in various areas that exist in other languages, this being one of them. And it is not easy trying to explain difference between two phrases in a foreign language when the difference between the same two phrases in our own language is blurred or nonexistent. I am not an English native speakers and to me, these two sentences are not the same and it has been a challenge for me to try and explain the difference between these tho phrases.
Simply put, when learning a new language, there will often be phrases that can be confusing. We simply need to keep at it and try to understand them and learn when to use which.
@josephjq. I actually grew up trilingual, because I come from a very mixed family, with Slovak being the main language in my immediate family. The other two were also Slavic languages - Serbian (or Serbo-Croatian as some like to call it) and Macedonian and also started learning English very early.
I, too, noticed the never ending comments on this subject. Initially I had thought that indeed there is a distinct difference - different syntax structure (same in both languages) that leads to a difference in meaning or at least in emphasis.
But I came to think that while this may be true in some theoretical sense, it may be the case that the two forms are completely interchangeable in any context; at least I couldn't come up with a convincing example where one of them sounds a lot more natural than the other.
If so, is it justified to say that they "mean the same"? I'll leave it to philosophers of language. Is it justified for DL to insist on the right parallel syntactic structure? I can see good reasons both ways.
indeed. thanks so much for coming back here to share this Danny. your explaination makes sense, which is why i have decided to focus on learning from context rather than analysing grammar. this approach has helped me break out of my monolingual mindset of expecting all concepts in my target language to directly translate into a sentence with traditional english grammar. some this i will have to learn over time rather than through explainations. :) just for reference, what is your native language?
after seeing many more examples of these types of hebrew phrases inside and outside this course, i still stand by my above comments, as someone who has a pretty clear idea of what the majority of native north american english speakers would recognize as a difference in meaning in these english translations. namely that there is no difference. i worked in canadian schools for more than 10 years.
however, the difference i have been starting to see in the hebrew is that when ה is added in front of each word and the order is switched, this seems to indicate that the speaker is trying to add emphasis to the statement.
i am also still hopeful that a native hebrew speaker will be able to add to this conversation to help clarify further.