"Many people are going abroad."

Translation:Dużo osób jedzie za granicę.

September 3, 2016

31 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aGABT31

Would ludzie work here instead of osób?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes. I'd actually go with "Wielu ludzi" myself, probably. "Dużo ludzi" seems weird to me, although I don't think there's anything incorrect in it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthijs677831

Why is "idą za granicę"? incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom873317

idzie does not work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

border of the country - granica kraju
to be abroad, out of country - być za granicą, poza krajem
abroad (foreign territory) - zagranica (teren poza krajem)

People have to cross the border (by car/by plane) when they GO abroad -
Ludzie muszą przekroczyć granicę gdy JADĄ/UDAJĄ SIĘ za granicę

People may cross the border on foot/walk across the border/go abroad
on foot if they live close to the border - Ludzie przekraczają granicę pieszo/
na piechotę/na nogach/udają się za granicę na piechotę (NOT: "idą za granicę")
jeśli mieszkają blisko granicy

Many people go abroad - Wielu ludzi jeździ za granicę
Many people are going abroad - Wielu ludzi jedzie za granicę
Many people are crossing the border - Wielu ludzi przekracza granicę
Some are crossing the border on foot - Niektórzy przekraczają granicę na piechotę

If you are at the border (na granicy), you can see things in front of the border (przed granicą), and some behind it (za granicą). Those "za granicą" are, in fact, in a foreign territory (zagranica), but both terms are NOT quite interchangable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"zagranicę" should actually be two words, "za granicę". Similarly it should be "być za granicą". The spelling here is quite confusing.

https://www.jezykowedylematy.pl/2014/12/jade-zagranice-za-granice-czy-do-zagranicy/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

Znów za rok matura...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steve571213

why jedzie I thought that was singular he, she , it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steve571213

but many people is plural!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Please read the link I've pasted before replying to my comment. It's in this very comment section, btw.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DTipps

Hello, I have the same question and have read both links. One just takes me to this page (which doesn't have the answer) and the other is just a conjugation table for jechać.

Why is a singular verb used when the noun is plural? I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say the adverb "dużo" changes the verb to singular, and also changes the noun to genitive. Is that right?

Up near the top of this thread Jellei says he prefers to use "wielu ludzi". Would that change anything else in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Maybe there's a technical issue which prevents my link from working properly. The comment I've linked states the following:

With other numbers (5, 6, etc., 20, 21, 25, etc.), if the numeral is nominative or accusative, the noun takes the genitive plural form, and the resulting noun phrase is neuter singular (e.g. 5 kotów stało, "5 cats stood").

Certain quantifiers behave similarly to numerals. These include kilka ("several"), parę ("a few") and wiele ("much, many"), which behave like numbers above 5 in terms of the noun cases and verb forms taken.

Quantifiers that always take the genitive of nouns include dużo ("much, many"), mało ("few, little"), więcej ("more"), mniej ("less") (also najwięcej/najmniej "most/least"), trochę ("a bit"), pełno ("plenty, a lot").

Then, there's Jellei's comment which states the same:

those noun phrases built as "numeral/quantifier + noun in Genitive" are actually grammatically singular: so it should be "Wielu ludzi idzie". Or rather "jedzie" here

There is no grammatical difference between using 'dużo' and 'wielu' here, it's just that the latter is stylistically preferable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dklaskowsk

What about "Dużo ludzi" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pdamerval

"wiele ludzi idą za granicę" was wrong, I am still unclear about verbs of motion... assuming the mode of transport does not matter, I'm curious to learn why iść was not the right verb or why ludzi was the wrong term or maybe why I couldn't say wiele instead of dużo. Would using wiele change the person of the verb (dużo being singular, wiele being plural (I think))?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Ludzi is masculine personal (virile), so wiele must inflect accordingly to wielu.

Idą za granicę means "they are going abroad on foot" which only fits a very specific and quite unlikely context. That's why we want you to use jechać here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

And one more complication: you correctly put "ludzi" in Genitive after "wiele" (even though it had to be "wielu"), and those noun phrases built as "numeral/quantifier + noun in Genitive" are actually grammatically singular: so it should be "Wielu ludzi idzie". Or rather "jedzie" here ;)

Compare:

Trzy kobiety jadą za granicę. (Three women go abroad) -> "trzy" is among those numerals that use Nominative, the verb is plural. Let's add two women there.

We arrive at "Pięć kobiet jedzie za granicę". The noun takes Genitive now, and the verb changes to singular.

Also, those numerals that take Nominative have a separate form for the 'virile' form, just like Alik mentioned about wiele->wielu. And this virile form also takes Genitive. So if the sentence was about three men, not three women... it would be "Trzech mężczyzn jedzie za granicę".

I truly believe that Polish numerals may be the most complicated part of this language and the hardest to learn...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pdamerval

Part of the charm of Polish for me is its seemingly gratuitous complexity. It it rigorous, like German, but also full of exceptions, like French. This might be received as controversial and seem insulting, but Russian almost seems like Polish as spoken by farmers in my view. It simplifies a lot of the original complexities of a slavic root which is rich in variety and style. I truly do not mean to insult anyone by saying this - I speak Afrikaans, which is like Dutch spoken by farmers, and it both a language and a people that I dearly love - nor certainly could the Russian culture be dismissed as a culture of farmers. It just seems to be the direction the language went towards.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

I seriously doubt that you've studied Russian in-depth, otherwise you wouldn't make such oversimplified remarks.

Russian has 7 distinct intonation patters which have an influence on the meaning of a sentence.

https://russons.com/russian-intonation/

Such a complex intonational system is absent from Polish.

Furthermore, Polish has fixed stress on the penultimate syllable, whereas Russian uses dynamic stress to make a distinction in meaning.

  • За́мок (castle)
  • Замо́к (lock, zipper)

In Polish both words (zamek) are pronounced the same way.

About semantic complexity: Russian incorporated both Old Slavonic and dialectal words into its everyday vocabulary, which resulted in more differentiated lexemes:

  • моложе - younger by appearence (orinigated from spoken dialects)

  • младше - younger by age or rank (originated from Old Slavonic)

Such disctinctions are missing from Polish.

Also, Russian distiguishes two types of adjectives (long and short) which express different nuances in meaning.

http://masterrussian.com/aa041601a.shtml

No such thing in Polish.

I could go on and on about secondary partitive and locative cases...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%87%D0%B0%D0%B9#Declension_2

...past active imperfective participles...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%B9#Russian

...but I think you get the point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry11215

I also studied Russian, and I find Polish immeasurably more complicated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pdamerval

So, to recap:

Iść -> To go, when by foot or by an irrelevant mode of transportation, or when transportation itself is not a logical part of the meaning, for example when the transfer is part of a trip.

Jechać -> to go, when transportation is assumed or specified.

Virile: a group of people or animals where at least one male is present.

Non-virile: a group of females or children, human or animal.

Numbers 2+ have a different form for virile and non-virile

counted subjects are either virile + genitive + singular verb, or non-virile + plural nominative + plural verb.

Am I on the right track?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"iść" - generally yes, although I'm not sure what you mean by "when transportation itself is not a logical part of the meaning, for example when the transfer is part of a trip". Isn't the first part what you already mentioned as "irrelevant mode of transportation"? And the second... transferring from a bus to a train, or what?

"jechać" - yes. A ground vehicle, although for going abroad, even if I'm taking a plane or (that's rare) a ship, "jechać" is still fine if we assume that the plane/ship is irrelevant. But 'walking' abroad is just not very probable at all, so "jechać" is used then.

"virile" - usually called 'masculine personal plural' here, but we're trying to make people used to the shorter term. It's only for people - a group of male animals doesnt undergo this plural. So a group (of people) with at least one man.

"non-virile" - usually called 'not masculine-personal plural', and let's face it, it's a nightmare term (although it describes its function well). It's the 'everything else' plural, used for everything that is not in the abovementioned 'group with at least one man'. So: women, girls, tigers, trees, houses, boxes, children, etc. Almost everything, apart from male people.

Numbers 2+ have a different form for virile and non-virile - yes. But that is only visible in Nominative and Accusative.

counted subjects are either virile + genitive + singular verb, or non-virile + plural nominative + plural verb. - not exactly.

Most numbers take Genitive, actually. Those that do not, are 1, 2, 3, 4 and those that end with words "dwa", "trzy" or "cztery" (therefore 12, 13 and 14 are excluded, they also take Genitive). So if they take Genitive, they also take a singular verb.

Every number bigger than 1 has a separate virile form which always takes Genitive, regardless of whether the basic form took Genitive or Nominative. Compare "trzy kucharki" vs "trzech kucharzy" (three female/male cooks, first takes Nominative, the second Genitive) and "pięć kucharek" vs "pięciu kucharzy" (five female/male cooks, both take Genitive).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pdamerval

My intuition was to write wiele ludzi jadą but it was rejected


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, two reasons. Firstly, "ludzie" are masculine personal, so they have a separate form: "wielu". Compare: "wielu mężczyzn", "wiele kobiet", "wiele dzieci", "wielu ludzi" (a lot of men/women/children/people).

Secondly, whenever you use a quantifier like "wiele/wielu", the whole noun phrase is grammatically singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kendra800150

"Wielu ludzi jeździ za granicę"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

"Many people go abroad."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/theresadom2

That word jedzą was not there to use? Why was that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Jedzą = they are eating
Jadą = they are going (by car/train/etc.)

Here it's jedzie because quantities (dużo) are grammatically singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bostik2

What is the difference between jedzi and jeździ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"jedzi" is not a word, I'll assume you meant "jedzie".

Generally those are 3rd person singular forms, noun phrases like "dużo osób" are just grammatically singular.

So "jedzie" means "[he/she/it] is going" (right now / expressing a plan for the future), while "jeździ" means "[he/she/it] goes" (generally, habitually, with some regularity).

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