"Η νονά μου είναι παιδί."

[ID-007]

Hopefully, my godmother is a little older than me, right?-) NOTE: "?-)" means that while my question is real it is also meant to be taken very lightly (hence the smiley after "?").... If you take any of these courses too seriously, you are bound to miss all the good things. I suggest, relax and enjoy owling!-) If we also learn a little more about different cultures, that's a bonus, right? Anyway, KUDOS to all the volunteers who put the trees together, the Duolingo team for making it happen, and to Luis for trying to keep it free!

[JamesTWils]

Yeah, I would not think a child would be canonically acceptable as a godmother. She would at least have to be confirmed.

[sdr51]

Well, the majority religion of Greece is Orthodox Christianity, since ancient times. And in Orthodox tradition one must be an adult to become a godfather or godmother. So the sentence in this exercise is (perhaps) a fabrication, or comes from outside Orthodoxy, and cannot be too typically Greek!

[troll1995]

It is typical nowadays. My godmother is just five years older than me, I was baptized Orthodox Christian by an Orthodox Christian priest within the official Orthodox Greek Church. The sentence above is something I used to say. These times, for better or worse, those rituals have lost their original meaning and are just traditions.

[sdr51]

I came into the Greek Orthodox Church the same way you did, for what that's worth. It seems I'm considerably older. May you grow in the faith as you too grow older.

[dieprinzessin]

Absolute non sense seen that a godmother/godfather's job is to replace the parents in case of their death.

[JamesTWils]

I agree, though I guess it brings up the question of what a παιδί refers to. Teenage godparents, for instance, are not unheard of.

[dieprinzessin]

It is terrible when traditions loose their meaning and become nonsensical.
But probably you are right. :D

[Goren17]

It is not terrible, it's just evolution. As conditions of the society change, what may have once been practical becomes just a ritual to show one's cultural identity. It is normal and it was always like this since the dawn of civilization.

[JamesTWils]

I absolutely agree with you, Ihre Majestät. I was actually thinking of teenage godparents in the Middle Ages, principally godmothers who were married girls.

[sdr51]

Could well be. While Orthodox godparents are always adults, the age at which a person is considered to be an adult varies by culture and by historical time. Even today in the U.S., an 18- or 19-year-old man or woman could be a godparent. But that age could be considerably less in other times and places, for either gender. The ancient Jews became adults at 13, so that would have established the first Orthodox standard also. People of that age are considered children in our society, but that is not a universal, and they have been treated as full adults elsewhere and elsewhen.

The odd thing about this sentence is the word child. Not by any Christian tradition, whatever the age.

[JamesTWils]

No, a child godmother would not be accepted in the Anglican church now, but my training is as a medieval historian, so it is very likely that I would be reading or speaking in Greek about a historical situation in the Latin Church. That is why I point out that a teenage godmother would not be impossible, or maybe even uncommon at a certain point. That is also why I would want to know about at what age one might call a person a παιδι. I am quite familiar with the classical usage of παις, but would it be odd for me to describe a teenaged medieval monarch as a παιδι in modern Greek? Is it a term I should use when talking about my students who range in age from about 19 to about 22?
As so often, I think I am asking a pretty straightforward question, but I am making a complete hash of making it clear.

[sdr51]

I understand, at least now. But "girl's night out" and "κορίτσια" are currently both used to mean people in the forties, or older, (sometimes), and it could be the same for "παίδια". And you have also described much older use of "παίδι" in contexts where sexual implications can be found, which must indicate at least that there might be a continuity of practice.

In any case, when speaking in those historical contexts, it can be important to stop thinking about age in the way we do now, and in our present culture. Both child and teenager have modern connotations that simply do not survive the transfer of time, so we can get into an extra muddle through improper application of English.

Before sorting out some of your questions about "παίδι", it's necessary first to translate all language into the culture and time of the place one is talking about, and keep firmly in mind that a 14-year-old may well be an adult. Likewise, what is a formal or an informal context for that culture or time? Think "40 years old" in relation to "παίδι" and see if dissonance occurs. I think it's a big but necessary step to reset our current-day feelings and instead put ourselves into a different frame of reference in order to get a good feel for contexts that can be very foreign to us.

I find that it's a rarity for anyone now even to realize that such a thing exists, but even for those who deal with it often, it is no simple matter actually to do it. When we're focusing on quantizing age and age groups, I think we're doing a more modern thing. Historically, I'd say it's more relational. And that's part of the idea that needs to be communicated also when talking to the young. Because adult is as adult does, at any age.

[sdr51]

As for παίδι, I can't really say what its use was historically. I have learned here that κορίτσι and αγόρι are sometimes used for girlfriend/boyfriend (with possible sexual overtones), and are also used informally for adult friends in non-sexual reference, like the English "guys" and "gals", or "boy's/girl's night out". So why not a mix for παίδι also, now, or before now?

[sdr51]

Sure James, your reference to Anglican tradition was the sort of western derivative I was thinking of also. Although, as a former Anglican myself, I rather think (unless something else has changed), that the reference to child still doesn't fit with that tradition either, and that it's more likely to be something western where the person speaking doesn't understand any of the church traditions fully.

[JamesTWils]

Absolutely. The canonical limitation, though, was I think always that the godparent had to have been confirmed. At times in the Middle Ages, that might have been as young as eight or nine, but I have usually seen it older, around eleven or twelve.

[JamesTWils]

And I still would love to know what a παιδί really refers to. Would it be odd to call a fourteen-year-old a παιδί, for instance. I know that I have seen Classical Greek inscriptions, for instance , in which a clearly teenage boy is referred to as a παις. The boys on ancient kylices that I am thinking of are clearly being seen as sexual objects, so they are not being considered children, which I know would have been off limits (under 12 or so).

[sdr51]

James, in the Orthodox tradition there is no exact correspondence to "confirmation", which was a Catholic derivation that happened after the schism of 1054. The Orthodox have has "chrismation", which is always given at baptism, which is a dual-sacramental observance. The separation is part of the Catholic difference, and is thus characteristic of the west, but not the east. So, for one to be "confirmed" Orthodox, that would mean, canonically, "chrismated", which is generally performed in infancy.

However, chrismation would also not be the correct canonical prerequisite for god-parenthood, because that would require membership (in good standing) in the church, and only as an adult. Baptism/chrismation confers that membership, but it does not stand for the rest.

[JamesTWils]

Absolutely. I was simply making the, possibly hasty, assumption that the term νονά could have been applied to a godmother of another religious tradition (quite honestly, I was picturing my daughter's Anglican godmother), in which case, the sentence would be possible, if a godmother in any tradition could be a child.

[Rob183829]

I really think this discussion is a bit OTT. Without knowing the context many of the sentences used could be bizarre. An equivalent sentence could be "My brother is an animal" it doesn't imply he' s got four legs.

[Kags]

Or the one in the German tree "Help, the horse is eating the holy potato". It's a language learning exercise, for goodness' sake. Lexically it makes sense, and introduces a new word ... and we'll probably all remember it a little bit better because of the unusual context.

[ID-007]

Agreed. One could easily put it in the proper context, as in: My godmother is a child of God too. But you have to admit that at face value it is a "funny" sentence while the connotation of your example is "easy" to read between the lines! Great course all around!

[franveca02]

Maybe it means that his/her godmother is childish or acts like a child. You shouldn't take everything so literal

[sdr51]

Not taking it literally. It just doesn't mean that his godmother is childish.

[paul448352]

yes this is an illogical sentence

[ShaoxuanLi]

THis sentence utterly confused me. I thought it is another Greek tradition that I am not aware of. lol Whilst I am very tolerant of most sentences that don't make perfect sense on Duolingo, this one got on my nerves and I would recommend this sentence to be modified or deleted.

[sdr51]

See my comments above. I would recommend a change also, removing the reference to child, for use of that word is an interpretation out of context.

[Hank_Williams_Sr]

D.O.E.S. I.T. M.A.K.E. A.N.Y. S.E.N.S.E?