"A vonatok nem újak."

Translation:The trains are not new.

September 10, 2016

20 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/AGreatUserName

I can hardly hear the difference between short "a" and short "o" :-/

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Andreas305

The pronounciation of that sentence is very clear and I am able to hear the difference. But depending on you native language you maybe need to train your ear for that difference, because you are not used to hear it.

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jsiehler

I agree with Andres305 that it's recorded well and the difference is clear here, and it just takes practice if you're not used to it. I doubt you'll find better audio anywhere.

You might want to check out the pronunciation exercises in the beginning of the FSI Hungarian course.

They are at the beginning of "Unit 1 Tape 2" here: https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/hungarian.html

And the corresponding text in the book begins on page 8. There's a whole series of a words followed by a whole series of o words, and then there's a set of words that are identical except for an a/o difference.

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AGreatUserName

Yeah, thanks. I didn't mean to imply there was anything wrong with the recording of this particular sentence. I know it's all me. I have had no such problems distinguishing vowels in German (long and short a ä e i o ö u ü although short "ä" and "e" are identical, plus three diphthongs, and actually, many more if you include the vocalised pronunciation of "r") or Finnish (long and short pairs of a ä e i o ö u y (y = "ü") as well as a tonne of diphthongs). Hungarian has a slightly odd distribution of vowels. There's no short, low, unrounded vowel, which I think makes it sound really cool, but I'm struggling with it for now.

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Perhaps it would be easier to learn Slovak Hungarian :)

Possibly through influence of the Slovak language, their short "a" is unrounded, so "a á" differ only in length.

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/vvsey

Well, "a á" and "e é" are the only two pairs that actually differ, NOT only in length but also in the way they are produced. You have to realign your mouth to produce them. All other pairs differ only in length.

Or maybe I misunderstood and you are talking about the Slovak "a á". In that case, sorry. :) What I wrote is about the Hungarian vowels.

For the Hungarian "a", I like to say that you need to align your mouth to form an "o", then drop your chin, open vertically only. For "á", you have to also open your mouth sideways, with your cheek muscles. The same difference goes between "e" and "é".

September 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AGreatUserName

Interesting! Are their "e" and "é" also only differentiated by length?

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

I'm not sure! I'll have to ask my friend next time I see her.

September 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Sayree3

What do the accent marks mean?

November 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

They mark "long" vowels.

With most vowels, "long" vowels are simply pronounced for a longer duration; with others (a á, e é), the long vowels are not only pronounced longer but the sound itself is also slightly different from the short version.

November 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Sayree3

Thanks. I've started trying to pay more attention to them and I've been hearing the difference. :)

What about ö?

November 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

ö with an accent turns into ő, ü with an accent turns into ű.

I'm not sure whether the vowel quality changes here or not but I believe not - it's just the vowel quantity (length).

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Andreas305

With ö = ő, and ü = ű there is only the length of the vowel different, like with most of the other vowels.

Only a = á and e = é are different in the quality of the sound as well as in the lenght of it

@Sayree3: You have to take care of the length of the vowels. They are of great importance:

öt = őt (five = him/her)

agy = ágy (brain = bed)

széken = székén (on the chair = on his chair)

sertés = sértés (pig = defamation)

And the most popular one:

Egészségedre = egész segedre

While the one of the left side means "all to your health" (or "Cheers!"), is the one on the right side something insulting: all onto your ass.

I hope, I wont get deleted ;-)

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/cosmo-pedant

The time to learn proper pronunciation is now.

April 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Thanks!

I keep wanting to make the same distinctions German does for "ö" and "ü" (especially "ö"), which is not just length :) (i.e. saying something like [œt] vs. [ø:t]).

Do you know whether it's [œt, œ:t] or [øt, ø:t]? Is it like French "neuf" or French "deux" / German "können" or German "Söhne"?

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Sayree3

Thanks!

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Andreas305

Sorry, I can not reply to your last comment, I do it here:

The hungarian ö and ő are phonetically like the ø.

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Thank you!

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Is "Trains aren't new" a feasible translation here? Not sure how far the "general statements take definite articles" logic can be pushed. Obviously the sentence without the definite article isn't too common in English, but it'd likely be what you want if the next sentence is "They have been crisscrossing continents since the middle of the 19th century."

January 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Andreas305

I got the picture right before you wrote the possible context of it :-)

I would leave the article and add for focussing on the indefinite character I would add the word "valami":

Vonatok nem valami újak.

January 3, 2018
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