"הקורבן מדבר עם עורך הדין שלו."

Translation:The victim speaks with his lawyer.

September 12, 2016

23 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

The sacrifice is speaking with his lawyer? Seems a bit late, don'tcha know? If translated literally, it presents a bizarre image. I'm picturing Isaac tied up, requesting to speak with his lawyer, with Abraham standing there tapping his foot impatiently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

It’s ‘victim’ but kudos on that imagery. You reminded me of this skit I wrote once.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

I read your skit, ACD. If you read the original more carefully, you'll find your joke doesn't fit. Isaac was already a young man, since he was capable of carrying all the wood for the sacrifice. Abraham would not have been capable of overpowering Isaac, and so he had to come clean about the plan in the later stages. Isaac, then, was prepared to meet his death voluntarily.

I won't interpret the story here, since I don't want to be a source of contention, but whatever its larger significance, it won't support your skit (which, after all, wasn't merely a joke, but had a polemical purpose).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoamKriten

How about a victim of a crime, when prosecuting the attacker?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

ha-korbán medabér im oréch ha-din sheló.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dary_333

Hmm, it's very similiar to Indonesian, "korban: victim"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

Interesting, thanks, although not just a coincidence, since there is a route, via Islam, that connects the Indonesian to the Hebrew.

In Arabic, one possible word for "sacrifice/offering/immolation" is "qurban" قربان , which is the same word, obviously, as קורבן (in the Tanakhic sense rather than the sense "victim", as in the Duolingo sentence).

So the Muslim conquest of what is now known as Indonesia carried the Arabic word there, and it was adopted into the home language, and even took on the broad everyday sense of "victim", as קורבן did in modern Hebrew.

As far as I can see, the Arabic "qurban" is not the word normally used for "victim" in the broad sense, so there would still be a small coincidence in that Indonesian happened to make the same semantic move as modern Hebrew, while Arabic did not (although consider this to be pending until a native-speaker or scholar of Arabic steps in).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

Notice you’ll often hear people saying ‘העורך דין’. This is considered substandard and is frowned upon in formal/cultivated environments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

This reminds of the common error about the principal legal officer of a country or a state. They are Attorneys General, not Attorney Generals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FelixZhao1

How do we make sense of the ה placements? Cause I tend to "fall" on that too ..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

If the word were ‏ ‏עורך דין, orekh din, a lawyer, that is in the construct state, so if you want to say “the lawyer”, (still construct state) the definite article only goes on the second word, so ‏עורך הדין, the lawyer, is correct.

(The word “lawyer” here has to be definite because of ‏שלו which follows).

Edited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

Your lawyer looks a bit odd, Theresa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stef13131

Why is advocate not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emc752906

Advocate and lawyer is not the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

Is that a UK differentiation, because, as far as I know, in the US they're the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry824711

There are people who work (or volunteer) as advocates for various groups (foster children, homeless, victims of domestic violence, etc.) who may be social workers or other professions rather than attorneys.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duorthvader

That moment when one gives the same answer as duolingo but duolingo marks it wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FMG.2

Is קורבן a native Hebrew word or is it an Aramaic word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

The root is ק.ר.ב, which yields many Hebrew words with a wide, but connected semantic field (קרוב, להתקרב, קרב, תקריב etc.).

So it's certainly not an isolated word borrowed from Aramaic (which I'm guessing is what you meant). Whether the root might have come from Aramaic, I don't know, but if so, it has been thoroughly absorbed into Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Its-me.

So if the victim were female, would the only difference be changing שלו to שלה, or would we also use מדברת?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

It doesn't work like that. The word קורבן is always masculine, regardless of who it refers to. Therefore it can only be matched with מדבר and שלו. If the victim were a woman, you'd need to add additional information. For example: הקורבן של הפשע היה אישה בת ארבעים, והיא אמרה... "the victim of the crime was a woman, age 40, and she said..."

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