No, it's one of those things that has become Greek by adoption and living very happily.
that and thousand other words/expressions... (είναι κούλ, φοβερό ιβέντ, είμαι σε μίτινγκ, παίζω μπάσκετ)
Truer words were never said. And how many more? I just learned that some psychologists now use οπτιμισμός instead of the perfect Gr. word αισιοδοξία. Ciao :-))
Well it's a food coming from a foreign country so it's expected and normal. :)
Which is expected? That it have a Greek name? Yes, but what about pizza, lasagna etc all over the world. Oh, and gyro. :-)
Words that correspond to food (particularly ethnic food) or places should keep their etymological root. Please don't try to translate "hot dog" or "Θερμοπύλες" using literal translation! Certainly DL is not the place to do that! On the other hand, DL is a place to be exposed to a new language (and culture). When it comes to Greek, I think it should be noted that modern Greeks feel a weird pride for having their language given etymological roots to thousands of words used in almost all languages, but at the same time they are notorious for adopting foreign words (especially English) in their everyday communication.
I meant it's expected not to have a Greek name because it is a food that comes from another country. The same way all the aforementioned foods are not translated somehow.
I thought that might be what you meant. Yes, I wonder if food and their names don't bring countries closer.
I think DL uses computer-generated voice. In Greek there is only one sound that corresponds to each of the letters of the alphabet (the reverse is not true!). τσίζκεϊκ is not a Greek word and the letters that are used come as close as possible to reproduce the sound of the English word. The letter ζ never changes its pronunciation. It is always ζ as in ζωή (life).
I would disagree with the fact that only one sound corresponds to each of the letters of the alphabet. For instance σ is sometimes pronounced almost like a sh in spoken language. I cannot think of an example, but I was always laughing about it with my Greek friends. This s-sh was also noticeable when they spoke English. I remember, for instance εικοσι was pronounced with a funny s I could not imitate by some Greeks.
trezost is right: one sound-one letter, one letter-one sound is considered the great new idea with the alphabet introduced by the Greeks. You just had to learn 24 letters then you could read. It is a little bit destroyed in modern Greek. SH-, J, CH- ... sounds are exceptions. They are non-Greek sounds as you can see from the transposed names: Σέλευ, Σοπέν, Σούμαν, Σούβερτ, Tζόνσον, Τσάρλυ Τσάπλιν, Τσαϊκόφσκι (Shelley, Chopin, Schumann, Scubert, Johnson, Charlie Chaplin, Tchaikovski or Tjajkovsky or ... also transposed from the cyrillic alphabet) Otherwise Greek is extraordinary if you want to learn how exotic names are pronounced. They even have an accent on the stressed syllable. Have you noticed that borrowed Greek usually has stress on the wrong syllable
Yes, I've noticed that English often changes the stressed syllable for both Greek or Latin loanwords. And Νικολας Κέιτζ, Τσακ Νόρις and Νεύτωνας (Isaac Newton) always made me smile. What I wanted to say is that modern spoken Greek has some exceptions of the "one letter-always the same sound" rule. For instance γγ is supposed to sound like ng, but the n sound is skipped altogether in many words. Take the name Αγγελος for instance. The letter σ has also some very slightly different pronunciations, that Greeks themselves are not very aware of. These have nothing to do with foreign names or loandwords.
I view DL as an introductory assistance program in learning a new language and not as a tool that linguists would use. I vaguely remember instances where diphthongs of two consonants have different sounds without being told the corresponding rule (I cannot think of any right now). Nevertheless, for all practical purposes Greek is 100% phonetic. What you see written is what you need to pronounce based on well established pronunciation rules and I am not aware of any regional variation to these rules.
Yes. I think the "one letter for one sound" was true for old Greek which I do not know. I think that γγ/ng did not belong to old Greek and know that γ itself was a clean g- sound (like in give) and so forth. In my country we eat músakas in the Gr. taverna Zórba and discuss Gr filosófer like Sokrátes and Aristóteles (μουσακάς, Ζορμπάς, φιλόσοφος, Σωκράτης, Αριστοτέλης). And the Greeks only laugh when I try to discuss Greek philosophy with them and I understand them, but ...
You will encounter these situations in the duolingo lessons too. For instance ντ in ποντίκι is not the same as the one in έντομο. Nobody pronounces Ανδιο with an n. But in many words the n is heard.
The "ng" is definitely pronounced in Άγγελος" and the 'σ' is "s" as far as I know. I wonder if you are referring to local pronunciations. We have areas where there is a "shh" sound but that is just local. And even that I venture to say is only among the older people.
A controversial topic!
"Greek linguists do not agree on which consonants to count as phonemes in their own right, and which to count as conditional allophones.
/s/ and /z/ are somewhat retracted ([s̠, z̠]); they are produced in between English alveolars /s, z/ and postalveolars /ʃ, ʒ/. /s/ is variably fronted or further retracted depending on environment, and, in some cases, it may be better described as an advanced postalveolar ([ʃ˖])."
The dependency of σ on environment (i.e. the sounds adjacent to it), and the way it sometimes tends to be postalveolar (like English 'sh') is I think what AndreiPri is referring to.
If only one letter=one sound, then why does υ have so many different sounds? Sometimes the "f" sound (αυτό), sometimes the "ee" sound (χυμός), sometimes the "v" sound (αυγό)?
Also, there are several letters that make the "ee" sound: η (φαγητό), υ, ι (τυρί). And I often forget which o to use: ω or ο? (παγωτό)
η, ι, υ, ει, οι are the five ee-sounds in Greek, long if they are stressed (accent)^ otherwise short. They follow one or two letters one sound, not one letter many sounds like in English. The one letter <> one sound was an ancient Greek invention and is valid for ancient Greek before Alexander the Great
^a stressed syllable has a long vocal sound or consonant sound. I have heard είμαι both as eemai and short ee-mmai from the same Greek
Whenever we say "one letter one sound", we say except for the diphthongs there are only a few etc. Find them in the Tips & Notes or in this link. >https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/22424028
Scroll down for diphthongs, double consonants, accents etc.
As for which letter to use, aside from the tip I gave you about the final Ωω on verbs mostly it's things you'll need to memorize.
I can't get over how helpful you guys are. Please know that you're building bridges and making the world a better place. :)
Thanks a lot. That's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said. And that's our aim in volunteering to work here.
Yes, the pronunciation of τσίζκεικ in this exercise has some strange artefact. It does sound a bit like τσίρκεικ. But it's not the usual pronunciation.
As this is a loan word both the spelling and the pronunciation vary. This pronunciation is within normal limits.
I thought that Greek when it borrows words, write and pronounce them as close to the original language as is possible. I am very happy about this, finally I learnt to pronounce some foreign names correctly
When we were writing this exercise we looked up the word "τσίζκεικ" on every Greek cooking site we could find: from Vefa, to Parliaro to the newest. I found at least 5 different spellings (if you count the accents, some used 2 words instead of one etc) and on the TV shows a variety of pronunciations.
We decided to go with the most common. After a while, these loan words become codified but it's too soon for this one. Years ago Greeks went to the μπάρα now it's μπαρ. :P
Yes! The key point to remember is that it is a positive adjective for the food it describes.
It will be easier in time. Here you have three words.
- το sounds like >> "toe" or "tow"
- νόστιμο >> "nose" "tea" "mow
- τσίζκεικ >>"cheesecake"
Now, doesn't that seem possible?
Why is delicious wrong? Is there a difference? Delicious VS tasty? I want my score adjusted.
Of course "delicious" is totally correct and is one of the translations we show for this sentence. If you had a problem with it not being accepted please give us some more information...Were you on the web or phone, what kind of exercise was it, what was the comment given by Duo? A screenshot would help a great deal.