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  5. "Εγώ δεν έχω πάρει φαγητό."

"Εγώ δεν έχω πάρει φαγητό."

Translation:I have not received food.

September 13, 2016

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeanprendiville

"I have not gotten food" what a travesty of the English languages!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

In addition to feyMorgaina's quite on point commentary, you may enjoy the following :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeanprendiville

Right, so perhaps the sentence should read " I have not gotten vittles" . :-))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Come now! It was victuals in Shakespeare's day just as much as in ours! :) (not to mention in Cymbeline, Henry V, and Two Gentlemen of Verona ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

The Greek, which was done first, had to be expressed. If you could come up with a better way to say this you'd be helping a great deal.

These are the tranlations for this word we accept:

gotten/got/brought/received/taken/bought/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

There is nothing wrong with "I have not gotten food" when "to get" refers to obtaining or receiving.

"Some dialects (e.g. American English) use both gotten and got as past participles, while others (e.g. British English) use only got. In dialects using two past participles, got is used with the meaning "to have" and gotten with all other meanings.[1] This allows for a distinction between "I've gotten a ticket" (I have received or obtained a ticket) vs. "I've got a ticket" (I currently have a ticket)." (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/get#Verb)

Also:

"Just seeing the word is enough to set the hair of some British English speakers on end. Yet, despite the many claims that it is an Americanism, it is most definitely of British origin and the Oxford English Dictionary traces its first use to the 4th century." (http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/gotten.htm)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gotten

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/gotten.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeanprendiville

I have not received food, I have not taken food, I have not got food, ? All are I think possible. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

I now see what the "travesty" referred to was. The use originally of: "gotten" and not "got". We are doing an AmEng program but always try to include BrEng. It seems that it was neglected on this sentence. As you will see from the new translation we now use "got" which is both Am Eng and Br Eng, of course, "gotten" is also considered correct.

Many thanks to feyMorgaina for the insightful and instructive post.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janetmalpass

Gotten is not English, it’s American and therefore is not acceptable to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

@Janetmalpass

The course teaches American English but also accepts translations in British English. If you read the other comments on this page you'll see that gotten is just an older form of British English.

These are the words we accept here:

gotten/got/brought/received/taken/bought/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Shakespeare, I believe, was English ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

Yes, and as attested to in the many references provided by the community above. Actually "gotten" was the correct form in GB until the 1700s.

. Robert Lowth’s popular Short Introduction to English Grammar (1762) complained about “a very great Corruption, by which the Form of the Past Time is confounded with that of the Participle” – including the use of got instead of gotten. Lowth said: “This confusion prevails greatly in common discourse, and is too much authorised by the example of some of our best Writers.”

And it's still used in the phrase “ill-gotten”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SirCol13

Shakespeare used "thou" and "thee" too. Although we've lost much dropping the nominative (subject) and accusative (object) forms of "you" from our language, those words, like "gotten", are archaic and obsolete to British English speakers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katoklima

Oh, come on! Are you trying to teach us Brits Shakespeare - or Greek! This problem has still not been put right after 3 years!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

What problem are you referring to? Quite simply: in American English, we use "gotten" whereas in British English we use "got". On Duo we accept either as correct so from what I see there is no problem.

These are the words we accept here:

gotten/got/brought/received/taken/bought/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Since this thread seems to have become primarily a venue for discussion of past participles of the verb to get rather than Greek, for the sake of broadening the conversation to more parts of the English-speaking world:

  • As an Irish person living in Ireland, in my experience usage of gotten is pretty common here. - Frank H.
  • gotten is very natural in AusEng too. I can't imagine how you'd speak without it. – curiousdannii

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/199544/ive-gotten-better-looking-as-i-get-older-when-did-gotten-re-enter-the-breng

I'd be curious for info on other English varieties. Anybody from Jamaica, Guyana, Singapore, South Africa, etc., etc. want to chime in?

Wikipedia lists gotten as the past participle of get in Scots. Any folks in Scotland use it in English as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

I thought this was going to be another.attack on "gotten" or American English in general so imagine what a pleasant surprise it was to see your precise, and informative comment. Your examples will be very helpful in explaining this to others. Many thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

I am puzzled as to why the negative comments continue to appear. What sort of exercise are people encountering where "gotten" appears (given that the suggested translation uses "received"), as opposed to just being a potential translation that will be accepted if typed?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

Both "received" and "gotten" are accepted as correct for this sentence. I imagine that's what opened up the flood gates of opposition.

I wish everyone would recognize that while Duo uses American English as its main teaching source many other versions are accepted...that, of course, means British English as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

I think the "flood" started when "gotten" was part of the suggested translation. That would see British users actually coming across it directly. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I don't think people are complaining because they read this thread, learn that "gotten" is also accepted, and then complain. They're probably encountering "gotten" in some way and then opening the thread to complain.

I'm not sure how that's happening since the suggested translation uses "received." Is "gotten" showing up in word boxes? Does it sometimes show up if you had a substantial enough typo or just got the translation wrong and the system showed you a correct translation? Is there some way this could be prevented?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeronicaSp291432

I thought πάρει from παίρνω means I have taken/to take, not I have gotten/to get


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

"παίρνω" depending on usage can be translated as : take, get, receive, earn, make a phone call and a few more.

See here: https://www.lexilogos.com/english/greek_dictionary.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

@feyMorgaina thank you for your insightful and instructive post. It will help many understand the difference uses of "I have got/gotten." And thanks for the well-chosen references. I particularly liked: the ones by "Mike Todd" and "the last one by David Crystal" and as he says: Weird, but that's English for you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

Oh! I'm happy to have been some help. Τίποτα! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nicole966706

I have not taken food? Πάρει is the past participle of παίρνω, to take. To receive is λαμβάνω. Does it have a past participle? Why is received a better translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jon345104

I have not received food is marked wrong it is the first answer in the dropdown help box


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

And also the answer at the top of this page. So, there must have been some error. Did you make a Report. You should report this as "My answer should be accepted." It's at the bottom of the exercise page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katoklima

'gotten'!!!!!!! I used it because it was the only option. TRAGIC for an English speaker!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 296

Sorry, if you had read the other comments on this page you'd have noticed that we teach American English on Duolingo but of course, accept British English. If this was a 'choose the right word exercise' it would have presented "gotten" as that is at the top of the list. But of course, "got' and "received" are also correct in other exercise formats.

And really how tragic is it. Since you have decided to follow a course that teaches American English why not just pretend you are play-acting and use American English a bit. Think of all the fine British actors who play the part of Americans and need to use not only American forms but American accents.

But please allow me to point out that as an educational program it really isn't necessary to be so emphatic to the brink of rudeness. We are always ready to read learners' comments. All caps and a slurry of exclamation marks are contrary to the principles of the program. And allow me to further point out that the language spoken in the United States is English.

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