"שבע עשרה עניבות חומות."

Translation:Seventeen brown ties.

September 15, 2016

22 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Shva esre anivot khumot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InnocentAbroad

That's seventeen too many! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/morvan82

Or sixteen too many. You should have at least one ugly tie. For certain occasions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UziYeger

No it's 17 too little!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarissaS103

Worst Father's Day gift ever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zion11dotcom

a card from your sixteen-year-old kid that says "congratulations! you are going to be a grampa!" could be slightly worse


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Why does Duolingo fixate on one number at a time? All the sentences so far in this unit have been 17 this, 17 that and 17 something else. Why not give us some practice with 11-16 and 18-19?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidSpect5

dovbear57, Thanks for your two replies, which contain no reply links because they are so nested. I agree that this discussion belongs in the Yiddish forum, but I don't know how to transfer it to there. Please do so if you can. Thanks for that link. The speaker seems very concerned about Boolik, whatever that is. The only word I can recognize from months of Yiddish study is "sahyin", meaning "to be". I wish I could understand Yiddish. It sounds so expressive. For that matter, I wish I could understand any of the other three languages I have studied here. The lessons are interesting, but they don't teach even the basics of what people actually say in these languages. And Duolingo doesn't have a way of communicating with its students. I"ve posted a question on their Facebook page, but I don't expect a useful answer. From its Wikipedia article, it seems that Duolingo is just a way for the founders to make money. Its "proven" and grandiose claims did not work for me. Sigh. Anyway, thanks for the interesting breakdown of Yiddish etymology.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nizdobs

What is the שורש of עניבות and what other words share that root?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

It's ענב

Not shared with other meanings.

Only that ענב is grape. But verbs using the root are all connected to the tie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nizdobs

Interesting that it shares a root with a completely unrelated word. I expect that the word ענב as tie is relatively recent whereas ענב as grape is biblical, yes? So why choose a word for tie that's already in use and has been for thousands of years?

Are there other examples of unrelated words with the same שורש?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

It's what homographs are all about. Though they are less common in Hebrew than in English.

Grape ענב is biblical, tie ענב is talmudic at least.

Some examples (though nikkud does differ)

Book and barber are both ספר.

Ice and bald are both קרח.

Evening and guarantor are ערב

etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nizdobs

In the examples you have the nikkud differs between forms so these examples are homographs. In the case of ענב the nikkud also differs but doesn't change the pronunciation so this is a homonym. At least according to http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cellis/heteronym.html

I expect that Hebrew has a fair number of homographs but far fewer homonyms, yes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

I don't really know. Hebrew was pretty phonetic originally. Modern Hebrew less so, since some of the nikkud merged, as well as the sounds of some letters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenjaminGo558229

It is probably 2 different 2 letter roots (not useful for grammar but useful for tracing linguistics.) But it could be that there was a knot of grapes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidSpect5

If I knew Hebrew I doubt I could understand this sentence because the sounds don't seem to correspond to the spellings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

If you knew Hebrew, I have no doubt that you could understand this sentence, because people who understand Hebrew know that ע is usually not pronounced distinctively different than א; only a minority of people pronounce it differently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidSpect5

Thanks, that is very useful. It should be a "tip" here. In Yiddish, which I am also learning, it is usually different, "eh" as opposed to "oh" or "ah". Of course, Yiddish is only similar in its character set; otherwise, it is like a distorted German. So far, I've seen only one word it may have borrowed from Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Would that one word that you know that Yiddish borrowed from Hebrew be טוב in Mazel Tov?

At any rate, in regard to Yiddish vocabulary, it is estimated that the Germanic element makes up some 70 to 75% of the overall lexicon. The remaining 15 to 20% of words come from Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidSpect5

I can't agree with your high percentage of Hebrew etymology. Yiddish also has words derived from several Eastern European languages, and perhaps even others.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

This whole discussion really belongs in the Yiddish course forums rather than the Hebrew ones, but there is a big variation between speakers. If you listen to a charedi rabbi like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f66BtlSjzq4 , his Yiddish includes a lot of Hebrew -- pronounced very differently to what we learn here. But a secular Yiddish speaker in America probably uses far fewer Hebrew words and many English ones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

For the sake of brevity, I omitted the last part of the sentence of the source I quoted, but here it is: ...come from Hebrew, while the Slavic element is estimated at 10 to 15% (an additional few percentage points come from early Romance origin).

This subject is also difficult to pin down easily because there is a difference between eastern Yiddish and western Yiddish.

Learn Hebrew in just 5 minutes a day. For free.