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  5. "אני מספר להם על הקברניט החדש…

"אני מספר להם על הקברניט החדש."

Translation:I am telling them about the new captain.

September 15, 2016

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

What's the origin of this word for captain? What happened to סרן or קפיטן? Are those words used in different contexts? Also, why is he pronouncing the ב with a soft ב? The dictionary has it as a hard ב.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

The land rank captain is סרן (I guess).

A skipper is a רב חובל or קברניט, which apparently has two forms, one with a soft ב, one with a hard one. https://he.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%98

Also קפטן is sometimes used, but I don't think it's considered actual Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ynhockey

The word קפטן is used in sports, i.e. the team captain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

But the form קפיטן, pronounced "kapitan" used to exist. Not anymore though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Don't know. Sounds Spanish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

Half of Hebrew is no longer Hebrew! I'm Israeli, my ex-wife was Israeli and some of my friends and clients are Israeli and we've all discovered that we can't read Israeli newspapers anymore because of all the foreign words written in Hebrew with extra yuds and vuvs and whatnot. Anyway, קפיטן is from Latin and is therefore found in all the Romance languages.

I still want to know where הקברניט comes from. I first thought it was CABERNET, but I doubt that's got anything to do with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

"New" :-)

Used in Talmud


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agelastos

Actually "captain" originates from midieval greek. It originates from the phrase "κατ' επάνω" that means "at above", since a captain's bridge would be on the upper deck.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agelastos

Try to get a hold of a book with the title "Hebrew is greek". This book is actually a study of ancient hebrew!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Of course, just saying I don't really recall it being used in Hebrew.

Greek: kubernetes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

So the new Hebrew word for captain, which is Latin, is now from the Greek word for "helmsman, or pilot"? Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, what would you think of this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

So this can only be a ship's captain? It's not a rank in the military?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

It's an ancient Gk word, κυβερνήτης, "a steersman, pilot, helmsman, skipper" and is found in Jewish Palestinian Aramaic, Christian Palestinian Aramaic, Syriac and Mishnaic Hebrew. For the latter, see Miguel Pérez Fernández, An Intro. Grammar of Rabbinic Hebrew, 77. It's not in the Bavli logically because that part of the world was less influenced by Hellenism than was Palestine, plus it's a nautical term and the latter is near the Mediterranean.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Nice! Didn't know that. More famous, https://www.zemereshet.co.il/song.asp?id=1552, also with the later (and better known) music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DuZQ22fSvw.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

LOL, loved it. And her accent. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

They are pronouncing החדש correctly (הֶ instead of הַ), but I've never heard Israelis pronounce it like this. Is this natural speech, or will Israelis laugh at me if I say "הֶחַדָש" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

You're probably better off with הַ, you'd be understood quicker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCopelan1

I thought מספר meant "number?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ynhockey

There are many homographs in Hebrew, and one can know what they mean or how to pronounce them based on context or in some cases nikud. In this case there are both homographs and homonyms:

  • number = מִסְפָּר
  • assigned numbers = מִסְפֵּר
  • tells = מְסַפֵּר
  • is told = מְסֻפָּר (although it's מסופר without nikud)
  • gives a haircut = מְסַפֵּר

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Also /misefer/ - from a book, /misapar/ - from a hairdresser...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry824711

How would you say it if the captain was a woman? Would it be "קברניטה" or "קברניטית" or would it remain "קברניט"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dsjanta

It seems that it is קברניטה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

It's a good question. I googled הקפטנית and got a lot of hits, so maybe it's הקפטנית rather than קברניטה. See my response above about the etymology from Gk , κυβερνήτης.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

Appreciated your explanation above. Have a Screaming Eagle Cabernet on me.

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