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  5. "Rugbrød koges ikke."

"Rugbrød koges ikke."

Translation:Rye bread is not boiled.

September 17, 2016

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

That's not actually true. There's a fantastic Danish oldfashioned breakfast cereal called "øllebrød" made of grated dry (old) rugbrød soaked and then boiled in water (or dark beer, hence the name) and served with milk and sugar. The rugbrøds bakers make it from bread that's too old, and sell it already sweetened in bags you can get at any grocery store, ready tp add water and boil. I wouldn't touch the stuff at first, but that was the breakfast at the maternity hospital where my daughter was born, and I loved it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ozwordnerd

I think they are referring to the process of making rye bread which doesn't involve boiling. Once you have made the rye bread you can then boil it to make øllebrød.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ozwordnerd

I really hate to say this but you can cook fish by putting it in lemon juice! You can cook by roasting, baking, boiling, BBQing etc. On the other hand if you boil something for a few minutes, you are not necessarily cooking it. Even clothes and equipment can be boiled to sterilise. When I was living in Dk my family would make the distinction between "koge" and "lave" and they would correct me accordingly. That was some time ago though - words evolve.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Slo

A good point - is it possible to say "at koge tøj"? In German we have the expression "Kochwäsche".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ozwordnerd

I'm not sure Thomas. I remember my aunt using the expression "kogevask."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

Yes, definitely Kogevask. Exactly as in German. When I moved to Denmark late 60's people still had a big, washing machine sized kettle outside or usually i kælderen. Min svigermors had a place under , where she built a fire, using trash, mostly, so it had a double purpose. She would boil all whites—sengetøj, undertøj, spædbarnstøj og bomulds bleer—and then wring them dry in the hand turned wringer on a Norge washer with an electric tub, I think, which she used for colored things. I had a neighbor later, on the wonderful island of Bornholm, who still used hers, which gave out the awful smell of burning trash. Modern washing machines have a setting called "kogevask" at 90°C, which my daughter doesn't use. She mostly uses koldvask. European machines don't use the house hot water, but heat in the machine, which makes the cycle enormously long!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Slo

So how would one say "Rye bread isn't cooked."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ozwordnerd

I think "koge" more specifically relates to "boil".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

True. Otherwise 'cooking' is 'madlavning. At lave mad.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Slo

But this cannot be used to translate my sentence above!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

Rugbrød bliver ikke kogt (men bagt.) I think that works. The justification of even having a sentence like this is, I guess, that Bagels actually are boiled, not baked. And flat breads are sometimes fried like pancakes (What Americans call English Muffins, tortillas, pitas, I believe, some Indian breads.) But there are few actual breads I know of that are made by boiling! Silly sentence!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Slo

But if your proposition "Rugbrød bliver ikke kogt." can be translated as "Rye bread is not cooked.", surelly the same could be said for "Rugbrød koges ikke.", right? It's only two different passive forms. Should I report it next time it pops up?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Slo

"de sås ofte" vs. "de blev set af politiet" eller "der fandtes en lov imod det" vs. "der blev fundet en bombe" er ikke svære for mig at forstå fordi det drejer sig om lidt forskellige betydninger af verberne. Men spørgsmålet var om "koges" kun kan oversættes som "boiled" eller også som "cooked"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

I'd say 90% boiled, 10% cooked, but always about something particular. "I was cooking dinner" = Jeg lavede (aftens)mad" or "jeg var i gang med at lave aftensmad" or "jeg stod og lavede maden.". but "Jeg kogte et æg (øllebrøden)"
I just checked: Øllebrøden, but brødet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

I just happened on these articles about Øllebrød. https://www.dr.dk/levnu/mad/saa-er-oellebroeden-tilbage-i-varmen

http://www.grillguru.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15043 Both articles think it should be without "klumper" or "kerner", but I happen to like it with some consistency, so I never blended it, and liked to use rugbrød med kerner! But I expect picky kids wouldn't like it that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

There are subtle differences. Sometimes they're equivalent, sometimes even very different. I'll try to find support for that (today, not right now, but now I'm curious about what the experts say!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

This is in the Danish Wikipedia. I think the very end in "Andre Anvendelser" may be the explanation. https://da.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiv_(grammatik) " en upersonlig anvendelse: der kæmpes / bliver kæmpet om pladserne. I datid har de reciprokke og intransitive s-passiv i modsætning til den egentlige passiv: de sås ofte, der fandtes en lov imod det (men de blev set af politiet, der blev fundet en bombe)." So 'koges ikke' is impersonal, while 'bliver kogt" is more specific.? ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ozwordnerd

Thomas, I can see by your badges that you are a linguist of sorts! For me, as a native English speaker "koge" is phonetically close to "cook" so you could say it falls into the faux amis category of words? It's not so black and white but the most comfortable translation for "koge" is "boil". It's very frustrating but I suppose we want to speak danish like a dane speaks danish. Having said all this, maybe if you report this, your translation will be accepted but then there would be no discussion about the subtle differences between "koge" and "lave" in this forum. By the way "kogepunkt" = boiling point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Slo

Indeed, I am a linguist. I feel the need to understand this, especially considering I have been giving Danish classes for some years now. I have until now translated "at koge" as "to cook". After this small discussion the question that rises in my head is - is it possible to cook without boiling? If it is, then we definitely need two verbs to mark the distinction. If it isn't, then cooking and boiling would mean the same thing and one Danish verb could be translated both ways, meaning Duo would have to accept both sollutions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

I am also a linguist, with an almost-PhD in Germanic linguistics —my dissertation, which was accepted for a Danish MA—was on the morphophonological changes of strong verbs, not modern languages. My hobby/passion as a retiree is to learn to speak languages i attempted earlier currently Catalan and Finnish through another program), and study other languages I haven't. But Danish is my second language and German (which I taught in Denmark) my third.

I'm afraid there is no single verb for 'Cook' other than 'lave mad.' A professional cook can be everything from a 'kogekone'—the woman who went around preparing food for dåb, konfirmationer, runde fødselsdage, bryllupper og gravøl. Her cooking did involve a lot of boiling. The meal started with hønsekødssuppe, med små mel- og kødboller. The roast beef was often a slaughtered cow that no longer produced much milk, so she was boiled long, And this was followed by 'is', which may have been boiled to pasteurize the milk and cream(?). In the old days, farmers ate mostly brød and (kogt) grød —havre, byg, ør øllebrød. Så madlavning involved a lot of kogning.

But now there might also be a køkkenchef, and you will also meet a 'kok' now and then!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/epac-mcl

Thomas. Getting back to your original question about "koge" and "cook". The way I see it is "Rugbrød koges ikke" can only mean "Rye bread is not boiled".

To "cook" in English is to make warm food generally. But, at "koge" in Danish, is to make warm food by boiling. Otherwise one would say, "...koges ikke", "...steges ikke", "...dampes ikke", "...bages ikke" etc. Therefore, your English translation "Rye bread is not cooked" is not applicable here, or anywhere else for that matter, because even in English one would not say "I am cooking bread", and also, if the rye bread isn't "cooked", it would not be rye bread but still a pile of raw dough.

Edit: Furthermore, "at koge" is not to be confused with "to cook".

koge = boil, kokkerere = cook. I cannot find any other conjugation for this verb (kokkerere) than "at lave mad".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prometheuswife

I think rugbrød should be accepted, even for the English translation. Because, I believe risalamande is accepted in English too. And possibly wienerbrød.

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