22 Comments
Out of curiosity, given that an earlier lesson included "Αυτό είναι το βιβλίο που αγόρασα", would "Αυτή είναι η γυναίκα που βρήκα" mean the same thing?
Yes, it is a correct translation. However, the unit was on "Relative Pronouns" so we thought to emphasise the "την οποία". But bother are correct in English.
1115
woman THAT I found? But in English grammar you don't use THAT on humans because they are not objects, right? You use WHOM. i.e. She is the woman whom I found.
Please help.
Ok, let's look at this sentence. First, the issue of whether we use "that" for humans. Here are two dictionary definitions: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/that
relative pronoun Used instead of ‘which’, ‘who’, ‘whom’, or ‘when’ to introduce a defining clause, especially one essential to identification.
‘the woman that owns the place’
https://www.macmillandictionary.com "We haven’t met the people that live next door.
So, as you see "that" is used for people.
Many thanks for you input we always appreciate comments from the community to help us keep things correct.
- 1115
I checked your link, at oxforddictionaries, and you're right.
Your response prompted me to look some more.
"To return to 'that', some authorities have argued that, in relative clauses, 'that' should only be used for non-human references:
"i.e. √ This is not a car that should be recommended for families.
"? She’s the woman that lives next door.
"In fact, people have been using 'that' for human and non-human references since at least the 11th century, and 'that' is handy if you want to talk about both a person and a thing:
"√ A jinx is a person or thing that is believed to bring bad luck.
"i.e. √ It was the drug and not her brother that had upset her."
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/09/07/that-who-which/
In my own summary, that is used for both thing and person. So in the sentence 'She is the woman that I found', it could be that the speaker found a person or thing, without being specific about finding one over the other.
Because την οποία (as a whole) refers to η γυναίκα, which is feminine grammatically.
- 368
her you have to take the feminine accusative form from "η οποία" and that is "την οποία"
I've listened to the audio several times and can hear "οποία" clearly. It might take a while to get used to the recordings.
I think there's nothing unnatural about the English construction :/ That, used as a conjunction, is not always necessary, if this is what you are referring to.
I was wondering, in the colloquial Greek I learned as a child, που was used, like, everywhere. So my question is, what is the difference (maybe in level of speech) between:
-
Είναι η γυναίκα που βρήκα
-
Είναι η γυναίκα την οποία βρήκα
The second one sounds more formal, but maybe the first one is just plain wrong?
As always, ευχαριστώ για τις απαντήσεις.
Of course, you're right. And που is an accepted translation and no doubt the most usual way of saying this...but we need to introduce all possible forms. Both are equally correct.
Whom is grammatically correct, as is 'that' (whether it should or should not be used for humans). 'Whom' should not be rejected.
whom is of course accepted as a correct translation. Of course, other than after prepositions, it's being neglected more and more and one day will be a thing of the past. But here on Duo, we can have alternative translations so we go by the book.
