"My sister is in pain."

Translation:Πονάει η αδελφή μου.

September 27, 2016

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3

The possessive pronoun has two forms: the strong and the weak. The strong one is ο/η/το δικός/ή/ό μου/σου/του/της and can be put before or after the noun. It can be translated as "my/your/his/her own" and is put before the noun in English. The weak form is simply μου/σου/του/της after the noun, and it the same as my/your/his/her, but before the noun in English. Notice: The "του" or "της" depends on the genre of the possessor, του for masculine and neutral, της for feminine.
Example: Strong: η δική μου αδελφή or η αδελφή η δική μου (double articles in the second case). Weak: η αδελφή μου.

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/slh123

The double article in η αδελφή η δική μου makes sense - it's like one way of showing attributive position in Ancient Greek. The double article next to one another is where I'm confused - it seems redundant and unnecessary, as the pronoun is already in attributive position.

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3

Yes, you are right. It seems redundant. The explanation I can imagine why it is so, is that the emphasis goes to η δική μου, and the first article is obligatory before η αδελφή, as it is in definitive form. It is not good Greek to omit one of these two articles, even understood, as redundant.

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3

Notice that in Ancient Greek the possessives are different: https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%90%CE%BC%CF%8C%CF%82

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/slh123

Hmm. Do you happen to know of a good Greek Grammar with an in depth discussion on the matter? I have access to Greek: An Essential Grammar of the Modern Language, Written By: Holton, Mac; Mackridge, Peter; Warburton, I.P. through my university. It's pretty basic, but none of its examples (pg 95) of the strong possessive do not use the double article: το δικό μας σπίτι είναι παλιο. Δεν έχει δικό της σπίτι. Is the double article only needed some of the time?

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

On the Greek forum there are resources. Look here and do not forget Wiki which is a good source for Greek grammar. here If you don't find it let me know I'll check out some other sources.

September 28, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3

Yes, indeed. But look at the syntax of the above sentence. It is something different. The case I am talking about is if το δικό της is after the noun, I am talking ONLY for this case and it is correct in Greek: το σπίτι το δικό της (double article). So: It is not good Greek:1) σπίτι το δικό της, except for examples like this: Αυτή έχει σπίτι, το δικό της, that means "she has a house, her own (house). 2) το σπίτι δικό της. (Except that the noun is "technically" glued with the pronoun as: Είναι το σπίτι δικό της, that is the same as To σπίτι είναι δικό της. Notice that in Greek we can do it even in affirmative, not only in questions like in English. The scheme Subject-Verb-Object or Predicate can be easily reversed or even omit the Subject in Greek, it is not so strict, as in English. The declension helps to be understood the sentence, or it can be understood by the context. I couldn't find some bibliography about this very examples. :(

September 28, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

@slh123 What I see now is that an extra η infiltrated the sentence and we must delete it. I'm sorry you have been chasing through grammar books to explain that parasitic "η". With a bit of searching, I found it, it was our mistake and I am sorry. It will be sent back to where it came from.

October 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/slh123

I think we're talking past each other. My question is actually whether Πονάει η η δική μου αδελφή should be Πονάει η δική μου αδελφή. No grammar I have looked at repeats the article consecutively like in the example that the multiple choice said was correct. Your examples also all have another word in between when the article is repeated.

October 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/slh123

Thank you, jaye16.

October 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

@slh123 Παραλαλώ Τέλος καλό όλα καλά All's well...... :-)

October 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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Thanks heaps for that explanation Stergi - I've been struggling a bit with the use of δικός, and that's the best explanation I've come across.

September 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Arzerra

Thank you very much, Stergi3. It really helps. My native language is Russian that does not have articles at all and the specific constructions like these with multiple articles look at me extremely weird and unclear.

December 25, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/slh123

I understand the given answer here, but in the multiple choice version, it wasν'τ offered. Instead, the correct answers were marked as: Πονάει η η δική μου αδελφή., Πονάει η η δικιά μου αδερφή

I guess we can use the δική μου construction to add emphasis to the possession and not only as "mine." But... -Why do these sentences use η η? (e.g why isn't it Πονάει η η δική μου αδελφή.) -Is δικιά an alternative fem. nom. form? I haven't seen it before and it's not listed in the grammar I have at hand.

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/HongNhiNhi

The words ''δική'' ''δικιά'' have exactly the same meaning, it's just a matter of preference as to which one to use. Now the double ''η'' is not needed in the sentence, it's not correct.

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

My understanding has always been that the multiple choice, listening, reviews etc would be chosen from the main sentences, not the alternatives. However, this is the second time I've seen one chosen from the alternatives. I've removed "δικιά μου" since it wasn't in either of the original sentences and there i s a whole unit on it. Here we're concentrating on the verb.

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/slh123

Πονάει η η δικιά μου αδερφή just came up as an answer again, but perhaps it just takes time for the system to update?

September 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3

Just not to be confused, δικιά μου is completely the same as δική μου. DL cannot cover all variations in Greek words, as you can undrestand. It needs much fluency to underestand the slight difference, it is so slight, that it like a small tone lighter in a color of a painting :) δικιά μου is just a bit more informal and literalistic.

October 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

Thank you. That was such a good explanation of the use and meaning of δικιά μου and δική μου and the difference. Sometimes too much information can confuse rather than impart knowledge. As one progresses more can be added.

October 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3

Also notice that δικός μου/δικιά μου is used in slang, in an intimate way. You can call somebody "δικέ μου" as an analogous to the English "pal" in slang. Sometimes with the particle "βρε" or "ρε" as "ρε δικέ μου" in an everyday informal discussion. But do not use it in formal cases, it is slang and intimate.

October 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Kalikur

I'm assuming the leteral translation of the verb παναω is to suffer, so the actual translation from the greek is 'My sister suffers'. In the English sentence the word pain is being used as a noun isn't it? (e.g. she is 'IN pain' rather than 'she pains'). Does greek have an equivalent to this distinction?

May 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

As often happens in translations the literal - word for word - translation is not correct in the source language. In this case, the Greek means "I am in pain" it is not specifically "suffer" it is "pain". We can also say "She hurts." which is another accepted translation.

May 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/GianPaolo382731

πονά should be added.

December 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/G.Georgopoulos

Yes, added.

December 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/AniOhevYayin

Apparently there was a shift from ancient Gk πονέω to πονάω. https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/πονω

July 11, 2019
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