"A sárga kutya odaugrik az asztal alá."
Translation:The yellow dog jumps there under the table.
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Going under a table seems contradictory to the idea of jumping. And then we have that problem with "there" again. I would like to figure out a more elegant way to say that in English.
1353
The table might be much higher than the dog. Perhaps she is in a hopping run to under the table to escape the threat of the hoover.
Long jump, not high jump. It is perfectly plausible to me.
It is really hard to explain the role of "oda-". One thing is that it means literally "to there". But it gives a sense of purposefulness.
Let's imagine you are in a classroom, sitting in the back row, being mischievous. The teacher notices and warns you: "Bastette54, do not make me go there!"
That is the kind of purpose. Not just going there, but going there with a purpose, with a conscious decision.
I think I understand the role of "oda." Well, OK, I'm still absorbing the idea of it giving a sense of purpose. But I do know that it's indicating the direction of the movement. So I'm not suggesting getting rid of "oda." I'd just like to have a better translation to English. "jumps there under the table" is very awkward sounding. Would "jumps under the table" be accurate? It seems like that would convey that there's motion in the direction of the table.
- 1353
I agree that "jumps under the table" sounds more natural, so it should be an acceptable translation. As long as the learners are aware what the 'oda' is doing there. Not sure if that's still true if we get rid of all the 'there's. Like so often, English is terrible with giving directions.
But for the EN -> HU translation I would like the 'there' to stay, so the learner knows they should use an 'oda-' prefix.
Yes, "jumps under the table" sounds good.
You can also omit the "oda-", with a little rearranging of the sentence:
"A sárga kutya az asztal alá ugrik. "
It is quite close to the original sentence, but the emphasis is shifted more to "az asztal alá".
Why is it close, you may ask. Well, "oda-" is a directional indicator, and "az asztal alá-" is also indicating a direction. So it is kind of the same thing. "Oda-" can also be considered a "place-holder" for "az asztal alá." Once we move "az asztal alá" in front of the verb, "oda-" becomes unnecessary. It goes away.
If we do not rearrange the sentence, just remove "oda-", then the emphasis changes significantly. The subject, "a sárga kutya" will be emphasized.
I agree. In some cases, "there" is needed even in the English. For example, some of the sentences have "odanéz" as the verb. You definitely the word "there" in the translation. (Someone "looks there," or "looks over there.") I don't know if there's a rule about when to use "there" or if it just depends on what sounds natural, which is much harder to explain.
The Hungarian packs more detail into a few words. It seems like the full sense is "The dog jumps over there and winds up under the table." We would almost never say that much, so "The dog jumps under the table" is all the information we can normally convey, and it means not translating the "oda."
- 1353
I think that is fine, as long as you are aware that it's grammatically not referring to "the table that is there" but "the dog jumps to that place".