Are αντρες and ανδρες interchangeable. They seemed to be in earlier lessons. If they are not, what is the difference between them please?
Yes, they are interchangeable!!! No difference between them ;)
Άνδρες has the same spelling as the ancient Greek word (modern Greek doesn't have ''smooth breathing'' in α), άντρες is more recent. I would say άντρες is more common.
One is a fairly recent spelling, and the other is older (I can't remember which is which). But they are the same word and mean the same thing. Even both spellings are interchangeable, as both remain in current practice.
Ανδρες is less formal, more ancient, and practically not used in oral speech, even in written speech today.
Are you talking of the spelling or of the word " άντρες". ? I hear "ο άνδρες μου" quite often?
If you are talking about Duolingo recordings, yes, it is a TTS recording, so δ is heard so. I am talking about the everyday life. If you write άνδρες you have to say άνδρες. Consider άνδρες more formal. The above written is the "rule" though.
This is more like "οι άντρες τους". Their own husbands is οι δικοί τους άντρες or οι ίδιοι τους οι άντρες, but the difference is small, i think.
My question also!
Sure, I understand why "their own husbands" is given as a possibility. But in the Greek, if I understand correctly, it's the δικοί that establishes the relationship of belonging between "they" and "husbands", not so much τους. Yes, it's not a legal title of ownership, but it is ownership of belonging. And that's why "own" is suggested, yes?
But in English, it's the possessive adjective their that expresses that ownership, a word that can also be use to translate τους, even though τους does not necessarily imply ownership/belonging as much as it does mere association, or a simple characteristic of άντρες. The words τους άντρες can mean "their men", as in a group under "their" direction or command (think business, or army), as well meaning "their husbands". But in the case of "their husbands", the English has already established that they are the very husbands that belong to "them", not some other husbands, because the possessive adjective definitely establishes the ownership in a way that τους alone does not. The Greek needs δικοί to establish that ownership definitively, but English does not need own to do that. The use of own is simply for emphasis, focusing more attention on the wives as the "they" whose husbands are being talked about, but whose relationship was never in question.
So I ask why "their husbands" is insufficient to give the meaning of the Greek, where "own" is implied, though understated.
First, thank you very much for the comprehensive explanation. It's a keeper (I mean I may use it/or parts of it for other explanations). In these types of exercises there is a stereotypical system. Here the word being emphasised is "δικοι τους" which is why we require the translation to include it.
Ah. I've seen signs of that system in French also, and have always seen discussion questions, confusions, and downright adamant suggestions that English does not require this or that which is being required. (Wrote some myself.) Such discussions never go much of anywhere, but I do think they represent a sizable fraction of the frustrations native English speakers feel when they are learning a language here. Everyone just hates being told they're wrong when they're sure they're not. And if they're actually not wrong, well ....
Please correct me if I am wrong in thinking I'm right - that English really does not need own to translate this Greek phrase correctly. I think that's what you were saying. That really is the key point I wanted to get at, and if I understand the point correctly, I am satisfied. What I really hate is to learn something carefully and to find out later that it is wrong. If I also have to learn how to handle this exercise in order not to get dinged, well, I can manage that ok as long as I know why - but it still doesn't make me love the system.
If it sounds like I'm griping a lot about it, it's just that it's a repetitive thing, throughout DL, and every time one encounters one of those exercises. It's the fly that won't stay on the wall, but insists on dive bombing you repeatedly. I do understand the teaching principle involved, and know very well the limitations of software technology, and so I can shrug and lay it aside. [Computers really are brain dead, and it's the programmers' job to give them all the brains they'll ever have.] But I do encourage DL to do what it can about such things. Because nobody likes a gnat in the teeth when they're just out enjoying the fresh air. [And contrary to some of the programmers I've worked with, these things are computer bugs too. Even if no program is ever perfect.]
So, you're most welcome to the explanation. It's all about learning things right the first time, and I do hope it helps whoever reads it to achieve that. And I hope that whoever reads my gripes, instead of becoming upset, can at least feel satisfied that they got the air and the release that was wanted, and lay them to rest too. :)
"Δικοί τους" means their own husbands. If we had just "τους" it would mean all the husbands. Have a look at the Tips & notes the access is at the top left of each exercise page.
The notes say that άντρας is sometimes spelled άνδρας. Does this not apply to the plural, or should 'Οι δικοί τους άνδρες' be an accepted solution here?
Yes, both άνδρες and άντρες are correct and are accepted here as a translation.
Not answered still today. I'll try to.
Consider δικός as an adjective, it has to be in accordance with the noun, as for example οι καλοί άνθρωποι. Τους is same like saying οι άνδρες τους.
This is called the strong form of posessive and is more intensive then simply saying οι άνδρες τους. As it is in English.
Yes, that's right it's only through the context that you know the difference.
Oh okay. So does that rule only apply to this or also to when people use different forms of Αυτό?