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  5. "Hoy lo voy a dejar ganar."

"Hoy lo voy a dejar ganar."

Translation:Today I am going to let him win.

February 8, 2013

54 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dzordzia

why isn't I am going to let him win today accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laurefinwe

It's because of the focus in the sentence. It's not very clear even for us native speakers but in "Hoy lo voy a dejar ganar" the focus of the sentence is on " lo voy a dejar ganar", whereas in "Lo voy a dejar ganar hoy" the focus is on "hoy". It also depends on the emphasis you put in the words when saying it though.

I hope this help you understand, 'cause frankly not even Spanish-speaking linguist students get it on our first years.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tomas.Janik

Well, it is not hard to understand the difference. But the meaning of other sentences in spanish course are not focus sensitive and variant answers are usually accepted. Not in this case. This is an inconsistency in the course, in my opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMoore622957

The inconsistency is problematic. It makes it more difficult to understand these nuances of the language, since there's no pattern. More important, if English does not shift focus with word order the same way that Spanish does in this particular case, then it makes no sense whatsoever for Duo to insist that only one English construction is correct.

Also, for clarity, can someone explain what "focus" means in this context? Is it about emphasis? For example, one might have been asked, "When are you going to let him win?" versus "Who are you going to let win this time?" Is that what we're discussing here? If so, then it definitely makes no difference where you place the "today" in English. The emphasis will be obvious from the context and, if spoken, the intonation. Absent context in a written sentence, English still wouldn't care about placement. Otherwise, I'm not sure why we are setting the focus on one part of the sentence versus another.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madix99

wow Tomas Janik! You may soon run out of languages to learn : ) Very impressive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeanG6

I wrote "i am going to let him win today" and it was marked wrong. Reported Nov 24, 2014. There were only 2 sentences to go to complete the lesson for a full heart bonus. Darn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Santi_Minstrel

The issue with 'le' vs 'la'/'lo' sometimes is not straightforward. Some uses are clear and have no alternative. However, this is not one of those cases.

The case is just in the border of both choices, and it seems that related verbs have their personal preferences. I would normally say 'le' for man and 'la' for woman, which is incorrect because 'le' and 'la' are different pronouns (indirect [CI] and direct [CD] resp.) This tells me that this case is complex even for me and I must consult official references.

I am copying the original text and providing a translation of the conclusion:

"Los verbos hacer y dejar, cuando tienen sentido causativo, esto es, cuando significan, respectivamente, ‘obligar’ y ‘permitir’, siguen la misma estructura que los verbos de influencia: «verbo causativo + complemento de persona + verbo subordinado». Tanto hacer como dejar tienden a construirse con complemento directo si el verbo subordinado es intransitivo: «Él la hizo bajar a su estudio y le mostró el cuadro» (Aguilera Caricia [Méx. 1983]); «Lo dejé hablar» (Azuela Tamaño [Méx. 1973]); y tienden a construirse con complemento indirecto cuando el segundo verbo es transitivo: «Alguien lo ayudó a incorporarse, lo estimuló y hasta le hizo tomar café» (JmnzEmán Tramas [Ven. 1991]); «El alcaide de la cárcel le dejaba tocar el banjo todas las mañanas» (Cela Cristo [Esp. 1988])"

Dejar, with the meaning of allow/let are built with CD when the following verb is intransitive (does not require a CD to have sense), and take CI when it is transitive.

Since ganar is intransitive (in this case), the correct use appears to be using 'lo'/'la. However, in practice, the choice of preference varies depending on the region (including small regions of Spain or certain American countries). Note however, that including the CD of the last verb changes the case (makes ganar transitive): hoy le voy a dejar ganar el torneo.

References:

http://www.uam.es/personal_pdi/filoyletras/ifo/publicaciones/3_cl.pdf [in Spanish], page 11, last paragraph and followings.

Diccionario panhispánico de dudas (sort of official Spanish FAQ): http://lema.rae.es/dpd/?key=dejar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shelducks

Thank you! That will take me a while to work my way through, but it's useful to see that it genuinely is a tricky case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marliner

How do we know it's "let him" instead of "let you"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

In this sentence, you can't. It can either be 'let him' or 'let you (formal).
If you ran across the sentence in a book/movie/conservation you would probably know which by context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Smultanius

The sentence sounds awkward if you put "today" first. Really, really should be accepted with "today" at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomfilepp

I feel like this is one of those sentences that needs the pronoun attached to the corresponding infinitive, otherwise you have absolutely no idea what the lo is referring to.

A la: "Hoy voy a dejarlo ganar"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rspreng

I'm pretty sure you can't put pronouns between the infinitives, by law. :) What it needs is an "a el" or "a ella" so we know who the "lo" is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SLL3

I tried a couple translation tools and they gave, "Hoy voy a dejarle ganar."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaimexplorer

Both "lo voy a dejar" and "voy a dejarlo" are correct. I've seen the second way more frequently except for here at DL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GScottOliver

I agree with SLL3 and jaimexplorer: I think you can't put a pronoun between the helping verb and the (first) infinitive. The final infinitive here is more of a predicate, telling us what you are going to "let him".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atdabomb

Duolingo marked the translation "Hoy lo voy a dejar a ganar" incorrect. Is adding an additional 'a' truly an error?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

(Adding to Santi_Minstrel answer)

Yes. Some verbs take a preposition after them in Spanish, and some don't. There really aren't any good rules for when they are needed, so you just have to memorize them.
Here is a good resource.
We actually do something similar in English: show up, make up (a story), sit down, lie down, break up, .....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atdabomb

This definitely answered my question. Very helpful!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Santi_Minstrel

Yes it is (Spanish native).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aurea897093

How do I know there is a him?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gordonjackson1

I put, "today I am going to win it" but was wrong. Is "lo" not an IT?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarianaEvenstar

Why is "I will let him win today" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hhowell4694

Because you're using the future tense, which would be hoy lo dejaré ganar. It carries the same meaning but it's a different tense and grammatical construct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jjkemp

This will really help. http://www.spanishdict.com/topics/show/17
There is a valuable test there that is very informative as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PinkyGreen

It doesn't say anything in this about how to use "lo". How can we know if they mean "Today I am going to let him win.", "Today I am going to let her win." and "Today I am going to let you win." (usted).?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jjkemp

Lo siento. They used "le" instead of "lo". Try this one: http://spanish.about.com/od/sentencestructure/a/lo.htm

You can also use your Duolingo Vocabulary to search for info on any words that you have learn.

While using the Vocabulary, mouse over the searched word in the "Forms column" for info. Click on the same word, but this time in the "Word" column and it will give you examples and usage for the word or term in question.

"Thank you for your reply."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RexVH

I believe that this really translates to "Today I'm going to stop winning it." If they wanted to translate it like they did, they should have used "le" since he is not the direct object, but the one receiving the action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

In order for dejar=stop, you have to use the preposition 'de'.
dejar=to leave, to let
dejar de=to stop (or very loosely translated to take leave of)

Also, I think he is the direct object. He answers the question Who? did I let win (DO) not To who? did I let win (IO).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RexVH

In your example - I'm just reading it again - apparently 4 years later - "He answers the question"

He = subject

answers = verb

question = direct object (what got answered)

Another example: I gave it to him

I = subject

gave = verb

it = direct object (it got given)

him = indirect object (he got it given to him)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Principito_Rojo

I think "le" should be used since one would use a personal "a" if one had attached "a él" or "a ella" at the end of the sentence, thus making he/she an indirect object. Or am I crazy? I've seen this kind of problem many times throughout the app.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hhowell4694

Don't think about the personal a. Lo is the direct object (him/her/you/it) because he is receiving the direct action of the verb "dejar" . The verb ganar is something he will be doing, so we don't need to think about that either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresegri

My translation "I am going to allow him win" was not accepted. Dejar = to allow , to let. DL alternative was: Today I am going to allow him to win. There is no need for the "to" before win. Any comments on this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ps104

Para mi esta frase tiene un gran tufo a loismo. Los comentarios de Santi me hacen opinar asi y mis, tal vez, no excesivos conocimientos.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gennuisance

I thought at first that we were in Catalonia and that the last word was 'caganer'. You... might want to look up what that might have translated to...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jar30pma23

"dejar" on Duo is pronounced "defar" soooo I had one heck of a time translating the sentence. I know it is usually pronounced "dehar". Or am I off base here???!!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sneuberg

I'm hearing "desar" but in any case it doesn't sound right. I'm going to report it. Thanks for your post. I'm glad I'm not alone on this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Uro95

what's the difference if you put "today" in the front or at the end?! Duolingo, please be flexible; languages should be artistically malleable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusannaEDavis420

Instead of placing the "lo" in front of "voy", which infinitive could you attach the pronoun to in this sentence -- dejarlo or ganarlo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hhowell4694

Dejarlo. Actually I think this is a case of clitic climbing that should not be allowed. I would say hoy voy a dejarlo ganar. You're letting him win. You're not letting someone win "it". It's quite ambiguous. Although I should qualify that by saying that I am extremely tired and didn't think too much about it :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusannaEDavis420

¡Gracias, Hhowell4694! I was tired when I asked the question, and I'm tired again now, so I understand! If you're like me, I'm so busy that I can only practice here late into the night. I really need to study these clitics more. They're very difficult for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carolyn118

To make the object pronoun clearer in this sentence, can I say "Hoy lo voy a dejar ganar a él", or is it a weird sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/el-Canguro

why not " let IT win" some devilish gaming machine for example?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/The.Other.Caleb

This sentence is very fun to say with its two internal rhymes: "HOY lo VOY a deJAR gaNAR."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/narkop___

wouldn't hoy voy a dejar que gane be better


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaymondCat3

Would be far simpler if 'lo' were used simply as an object pronoun and not a personal one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CynthiaMar452802

why isn't "Today I am going to let you win" accepted? How am I supposed to know it is a HIM????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CassidyF14

Why can't it be: Today I am going to let her win? Does it have to be HIM necessarily?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Redi902612

I am going to let him win today - still marked wrong April 15th 2018! Reported


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grievous.c

If "lo" were omitted, could this be translated "today I'm going to stop winning"? My first translation attempt was "Today I'm going to stop winning it"--but I'm still extremely fuzzy on how lo/le/la are used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RexVH

Read Wazzie's comment below. I thought the same thing, but Wazzie reminded me that stop is "dejar de," not simply "dejar." For that reason, "dejar" should translate to "allow/let."

Lo = direct object (masculine) Le = indirect object La = direct object (feminine)

So, if you took out "lo," it would translate to something like: Today I'm going to let ? win.

Similarly, you could say, "Ellos no nos dejaron entrar." This would translate to: They didn't let us enter.

Lo, in the first sentence, and nos in the second serve the same function - telling us who received the action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kitchendesigner

So this is another one of these sentences where we have to play the "Great Guessing Game"!

Literal translation: Today her (him?, it?) I am going to stop, (allow?, leave?) to win.

My guess: Today I am going to allow her to win.

Wrong! I have no idea how to tackle these!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tfq9kL

Shouldn't it be LE instead of LO? After all it's indirect object - in this case him. Or if it is IT that i let him win, than i think it should be 'se lo voy a dejar ganar'.

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