Shouldn't "the salad's plate" be correct as well? It was marked as wrong.
"salad plate: can mean a plate which is used to contain salad (but which might not have salad on it at this moment), or a plate containing salad at this moment. Can the Greek mean these two things?
Is this a "trick" phrase? All along, with the past phrases, "the...of the..." was working just fine...and now it doesn't!
We don't have any trick phrases. It just happens that in English many expressions use the noun as an adjective as in this sentence "the salad plate", This is the correct phrase and the use of "the... of the" would be incorrect. Some other examples: "the car door" "the kitchen window" "the chair leg" "my coat pocket"...
Thanks. I know that. But I thought this was for learning Greek. I find that when I remember the most literal way of saying things, the better I understand the language (for example, if I see "της" in a completely different sentence, I could understand that is has to do with "of the" ...something...that is, if I got THAT right!). And...Why in other sentences the most literal way IS accepted?
Then I would assume that the most literal way was the correct and accepted way of expression. Languages and English in particular are based on usage not word for word meanings.
Surely "The plate of salad" is an acceptable translation, analogous to "the plate of vegetables" or "the bowl of spaghetti". Why is marked incorrect?
That would refer to the salad, vegetables or spaghetti that was in the plate but the Greek expression is referring to the "plate" that they are in.
As another example, we say: "a water glass" which means "a glass used for water".
Wow, a lot of postings for the humble salad plate. Here in America we also have the idea of the place setting (I think everywhere else too, but not yet mentioned). So in other words, there is an empty plate on the table meant only for salad. Same with dessert plate, soup bowl, salad fork, water glass etc.
Thanks for your answer, jaye16, but I still have a question. In another discussion, where "πιάτο" was translated as "dish", I asked whether, as well as the dish the food was on, it could mean the food itself, as in "a tasty dish" or "a spicy dish". The answer given was Yes, "το πιάτο" can be used in that sense. Your answer now, that "το πιάτο της σαλάτας" can not mean "the plate of salad", implies this is wrong, and that "το πιάτο" can only refer to the plate (or dish) that the food sits on. Which is right, please?
Hi Michael! "Το πιάτο" as a word by itself can indeed mean "a dish", both as a piece of crockery and as a recipe.
e.g. Η σαλάτα είναι το αγαπημένο μου πιάτο σ' αυτό το εστιατόριο. = The salad is my favorite dish in this restaurant.
However, when the word "πιάτο", as well as any other object that can contain something else, is followed by the contained object, there are two different structures in Greek that denote either the containing object, or the contained one:
"Πίνω ένα φλιτζάνι τσάι" = I drink a cup of tea
article + crockery/vessel + contained object in the nominative : you drink the tea in the cup, not the cup. You denote the contained food/drink, not the crockery/vessel
"Έχω ένα φλιτζάνι του τσαγιού" = I have a teacup
article + crockery/vessel + contained object in the genitive : you denote the type of crockery/vessel this is, based on the type of object it can potentially contain and that it was designed for; the containing object, not the contained one
I hope this helps! :)
Thank you, MarsThe Soap. That is very clear and helpful, and sorts it out for me.
Α, ναι; Στην ονομαστική πτώση; Για παράδειγμα: "Μου έφτιαξα ένα πιάτο μουσακάς." και όχι "Μου έφτιαξα ένα πιάτο μουσακά.";
Lets have a look at some pictures.
The salad plate
The salad bowl
In English, we tend to make a difference between a shared dish on a table, and single plate that a single person will eat off, in my experience in the Australian culture. For a dish that contains salad for sharing, we would normally call it a :
- Salad plate : A flat plate with salad on it. And implying it is for use for one person only.
- Salad bowl - is the dish containing the salad is a bowl shape. This may be shared, or it may be a bowl for ony one person to eat.
- Salad platter - is it is on a flat plate, and that plate is being used to share with others on the table.
And then you have a :
3. The salad platter / Η πιατέλα σαλάτας.
In my experience, it would be unnatural to ask, "Please pass the salad dish."
However, if we were clearing the table, we may ask, "Could you collect all the dirty dishes?" Or a specific dish may be referred to, and it could the salad plate in question, and it may be asked "Could you pass that dirty dish.?
And now we will wait for a native Greek speaker to come by and confirm the natural descriptors used in Greek for these items.
So do I understand: the possesive is used when you are trying to convey the type of dish being used and not when you are talking about the contents?
That's not a possessive, it's a genitive case of a noun. But yes, that's right το πιάτο της σαλάτας is the salad plate ie a plate used to put salad in. When you want to talk about the contents, you use the accusative ένα πιάτο σαλάτα = a plate of salad, ένα ποτήρι νερό = a glass of water etc. This happens because there is a supposed με in there (ένα ποτήρι με νερό, ένα πιάτο με σαλάτα=a plate with salad) that gets cut out when we have the indefinite article. But when we have the definite article you have to say το ποτήρι με το νερό= the glass of water, το πιάτο με την σαλάτα = the plate of salad.