"Το τραίνο είναι ένα γρήγορο όχημα."

Translation:The train is a fast vehicle.

October 26, 2016

14 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JacobPast177
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Type what you hear exercise: I wrote Το τρένο... and was told that I used the wrong word. I don't know if you can change it to accept both variants (I assume Type what you hear allows for only one possible correct answer).
If the same Greek spelling was consistently used for all the main answers in this course (the other being optional) then one could just remember which one is required, but since various people have contributed to the course sometimes τρένο is the prefered variant, sometimes τραίνο. As for me, I actually do prefer the older spelling τραίνο (since it retains the origin/etymology of the word), but the 'official' variant (taught in the schools) is the simplified τρένο (see ΛΚΝ etc).

October 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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The problem is that the listening exercises (as well as the Strengthen skill and test out) march to their own drummer. You know that both τραίνο κα τρένο are accepted for all the Tree exercises but these other hangers on will not accept our edits. Naughty kids. I've heard that on some courses they never managed to get it corrected. I've reported it umpteen times ans will continue to do so. Now, I'm keeping a file and fingers crossed after Beta we'll get it in order. thanks as always for your help.

October 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JacobPast177
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Thanks Jaye for your answer - I hope I didn't sound pushy or critical. I do realize that the sentences are locked right now and that the DL staff/technicians for some reason (possibly time constraints) are not quick to implement the requests of you course moderators, and that there is nothing you can really do about it right now. But apart from this problem, do I understand right that the DL program/algorithm theoretically allows for two or more different answers in a Type what you hear excercise, just as it allows for optional answers in the Translate this text or Mark all correct translations exercises? I had just assumed that the way DL is programmed this specific exercise—Type what you hear—allows for only one answer, i.e. the one 'main' or 'correct' answer chosen by the contributor.

October 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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I had always assumed that as well, which would be disastrous for languages that allow multiple spellings for some words!

October 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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Now, I'm stumped as you say what about two words that sound exactly alike but have different spelling" as here? I'll ask around. Thanks for bringing it up.

October 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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Hey Jaye, I was just marked as incorrect on a listening exercise for "το τρένο είναι ένα γρήγορο όχημα". Is this an issue that can be fixed now the tree is out of beta?

June 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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I was surprised because I had assumed that the listening would have been disabled but I'm sorry to say it hadn't been. There is thus far no other way to handle homophones in all the courses than to avoid using them for listening. We have disabled many but missed this one. Sorry and thanks for the heads up. Of course, I can't make any promises for Strengthen which is a rogue skill. We have all our hopes on the new tree.

June 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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Thank you!

June 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3
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Yes, there are both correct, but as soon as we accept the modern way, in orthography, τρένο considered "more correct". The children in Greece learn writing this way, some older than this age ;) like me use to write τραίνο. It is a foreign word imported, i think from French, as English were not so widely spoken as a second language in the 19th c., even this word is common. The Greek word is σιδηρόδρομος=σίδηρος + δρόμος as you maybe know, a greek translation from the French words "chemin de fer".

February 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/nauajos
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My dictionary says that it comes from Italian "treno". I suppose the word you are looking for is "αμαξοστοιχία"· σιδηρόδρομος = railway ;)

April 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3
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It is so difficult to find the origin of loan words sometimes. My speculation was explained above. I really don't know. The Italian loan words have most likely the itinerary from the Ionian Islands which were under the Venetian rule and many words imported from them. This very word, τρένο than was written many years as τραίνο comes from scholars or journalists who had used this word as it was written from their resources. Since most of them were French-speaking that time, the 19th c., I suppose that it came from French. I cannot prove it of course, unless I find the first publication in Greek about train. :)

April 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JacobPast177
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At least according to Μπαμπινιώτης this word has a French origin (from where its roots can be traced further back to Latin of course). In his Ετυμολογικό Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας he states*:

τρένο ΕΤΥΜ. \< ιταλ. treno \< γαλλ. train \< ρ. traîner «τραυώ, σύρω, κουβαλώ», για το οποίο βλ.λ. τρενάρω.

After an explanation of the semantical evolution this word went through in French until it acquired the meaning we are discussing here, he also adds a short article on the correct spelling:

ΟΡΘΟΓΡΑΦΙΑ τρένο ή τραίνο;
Επειδή προέρχεται από το γαλλ. train και εξαιτίας της παρουσίας και επίδρασης τού αγγλ. train, η λέξη γραφόταν στο παρελθόν συνήθως με -αί-: τραίνο. Εντούτοις, ως ξένη λέξη τής Ελληνικής απλογραφείται τρένο (με -έ-).

Unfortunately, Μπαμπινιώτης does not explain how the spoken word itself entered Greek from French by way of Italian whereas its original Greek spelling was imported directly from French, but Stergi3's explanation seems to be the most likely.

[*quoting from the Second Edition of 2011]

April 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Stergi3
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No, I don't think that the way to come to Greek is the above proposed. A rule of thumb in Modern Greek is to use phonetic orthography for foreign words, a trend that came to Greek just some decades ago. When I was a student we were taught to write it as τραίνο, and many dictionaries keep this way, still today. The word τρένο comes from French, I can accept it and then this writing transformed to τρένο, as many foreign words did, considering ε more simplified than αι.

"οι ξενικές λέξεις μεταγράφονται φωνητικά καθώς και οι μεταχριστιανικές γενικά λέξεις και καταλήξεις ξένης καταγωγής, που γράφονται με απλά φωνήεντα και με απλά σύμφωνα».

The above text comes from the Modern Greek Grammar by Manolis Triantafyllidis (1941), a classical Grammar book.

Why were we taught writing τραίνο instead of τρένο. Well, this is a consequence of the influence of Katharevousa, I cannot understand why Babiniotis proposed Italian influence, in a word that concerns an invention of the 19th c., maybe he knows something more. Or maybe both are correct. That is the word came from French and then simplified and in the same time introduced from Italy to the Ionian islands. But I don't know such a way.

Notice that similar words or names is more preferable to write them with ε, i.e. Voltaire=Βολτέρος, not Βολταίρος.

Notice that my Google Thesaurus consider both writings correct

April 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/annamerku
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Το τρένο. This is the correct spelling

October 16, 2018
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