"The ones that are standing in front of the new taxis are not old."

Translation:Azok nem régiek, amik az új taxik előtt állnak.

November 14, 2016

This discussion is locked.


What if my understanding of 'the ones' is that they are human and not things...is this ok: Azok nem öregek, akik állnak az új taxik előtt. The human and the relative pronoun for whom instead of that/which...


I assumed that they were talking about people, since they were standing in front of the taxis, so I put in "akik" and got rejected. This ought to be fixed, you can't leave it ambiguous like this.


If it were people, it would probably have said "the ones who".
Anyway, this is a terrible Hungarian sentence, I hope nobody learns it.


I have done the same and, 10 months later, "azok ... akik" is still rejected.


Sigh! I used akik, since I assumed people.


Except I think people cannot be "régi", they have to be "idős"


True, but both can be "old". Hopefully kmargittai used "idős" or "oreg".


Just had this sentence again and "Azok nem idősek, akik az új taxik előtt állnak" was accepted. Phew.


Haha, you were more polite than me: it's probably because I used 'oregek' instead of 'idősek' that mine has not been accepted.


What is the difference between amik and amelyek?


Please check out this discussion for some explanation:

In short, I would say that "ami" relates to "what", as in "the thing that". It kind of "includes" the implied subject that it describes. The noun is not mentioned in the clause that it refers to. With a simpler sentence:
What stands in front of the taxis is old - "Ami a taxik előtt áll, régi." Or: "Régi az, ami a taxik előtt áll."

"Amely", on the other hand, refers to a "named" noun or subject.
The bus that stands in front of the taxis is old. - "A busz, amely a taxik előtt áll, régi." Or: "Régi a(z a) busz, amely a taxik előtt áll."

In the sentences above, I see a mismatch in the translation.

"The ones that are standing in front of the new taxis are not old."
The subject is not unnamed, it is probably known in the context. For example:
"Let's talk about the buses. The ones that are .... ". I would definitely use "amelyek" here.
"Azok, amelyek az új taxik előtt állnak, nem régiek."

And now, without a named subject:
"Let us talk about what is standing in front of the new taxis."
"Beszéljünk arról, ami az új taxik előtt áll."

Unfortunately, the English sentence does not easily lend itself to the use of "what". Or does it? I don't know:

"What are standing in front of the new taxis are not old." - sounds a bit weird.
"Azok nem régiek, amik az új taxik előtt állnak."
Or: "Amik az új taxik előtt állnak, nem régiek."


My Hungarian son-in-law begs to differ.

He maintains that "ami' is equivalent to the English "that", while "amelyik" is equivalent to the English "which" and this equivalence is so true that, just as the English speakers are rarely heard to choose the correct word, so, too, are the Hungarian speakers.

In a nut shell, "ami" and "that" are used when the descriptive clause is used to identify the object and "amelyik" and "which" are used when the descriptive clause is merely providing some additional information that doesn't, necessarily, identify the object.

Example: I have three cats, one is white and the other two black. One got into a fight with a dog. A: The cat that/ami is white escaped by climbing a tree. B: The cat, which/amelyik just-happens-to-be/is black, escaped by climbing a tree.

I needed to think a bit before constructing the above example, because I wanted to create a scenario where the only grammatical difference is the use of "that/ami" versus "which/amelyik". Most often, a noun with an indefinite article, will not be described by a "that/ami" clause, as the indefinite article implies that we have no intention of identifying it. In the English, the commas must appear as shown in the example, but I don't know whether there is an official Hungarian recommendation on the use of commas in these situations.

On the downside, I'm afraid there is no advice that will be consistent with Mr. D.'s translations.


Yeah, I have to agree that not all Hungarians speak "correct" Hungarian. :P
Which is, I am sure, true for all languages. After all, that is what makes languages change/evolve.
The advantage of "ami" over all others is that it is much shorter. So it squeezes out the proper usage everywhere, like an invasive species.
But let me just ask one question:
"Melyik macskáról beszélünk?" - Which cat are we talking about?
Clearly, I want to identify the darn cat. And I am using "melyik" as the question word.
And the "proper" pair for that "melyik" is? If you ask me: "amelyik".
"Amelyik" = "az"+"melyik" = " that which".
Q: "Melyik macska?" - Which cat?
A: "Amelyik fehér." - The one that is white. Or: that which is white.

For more details, just read my previous comments, I maintain that they are correct. "Amelyik" is clearly an identifying pronoun(?), and "ami" is mostly "what" but is taking over the roles of others, due to being short and people being lazy. And then there is "amely", a non-identifying one, but it is not common in speech, more in writing.
Using "amelyik" in a non-identifying role is, however, clearly "wrong" - if we can call anything wrong in a language.

Further complicating things is that Hungarian also uses a pointer, an anchor, when identifying something.

I have only one cat, and it is white:
"A macska, amely/ami fehér, a szőnyegen alszik." - The cat, which is white, is sleeping on the carpet.

I have several cats, which one is sleeping on the carpet?
"AZ a macska alszik a szőnyegen, AMELYIK(lazily: ami) fehér."
That "az" is an important part of the identification. It is an anchor, a place-holder, for the second clause. Without it, the identification usually does not work.
You can obviously see how complex and confusing this whole topic is, no wonder people are mixing things up. And once you learned something from your parents and school as normal, it becomes correct and normal for you. There are countless examples for that in English, as well (me vs I, lay vs lie, went vs gone, etc etc).

Here is an excellent article - in Hungarian - about "ami", "amely" and "amelyik", I try to keep in agreement with it (obviously I don't always succeed myself...).


Im going crazy... my native is Russian... no problem with Hungarian but if to compare translation bw HU-EN / HU-RU and vice versa its a mess....!!!!


My experience too! With Serbian, though!


Are people or objects standing in front of the taxis. If it is people you would call them oregek not regiek and it is usually people who stand by taxis


Objects. Two clues here: "régiek" and "amik" (if it were people, akik would be better)

So The things that are standing in front of the new taxis... they can be parking meters, or buildings, or street signs.... Actually, in Hungarian, a lot of things áll, even if stand is weird for the English translation. Az épület ott áll. Az autó az utcán áll.

To create a version with people: "The people that are standing in front of the new taxis are not old." Azok nem öregek, akik az új taxik előtt állnak.


Exactly, that is why I submitted, Azok nem idős akik az új taxik előtt állnak. Still rejected because they are assuming objects, not people. But I should have used idősök...


I didn't know if they were talking about things or people, so I said idõs instead of régi. Foot!


Don't want to add anything to the rest of the comments, but clearly, I can't just see unanimated 'young' things (they are obviously not old...) standing in front of those new taxis.


You give very difficult sentences for newers. It's a wrong aproach.


Personally, I like to stretch my brain to the limit sometimes. The previewing of future cogitations also serves as guide. Of course, we all need resources that we can use practically. Sok sikert!


I am concerned about the order of parts in such sentence. While in English first you explain what /who you are talking about and then give away the clue of the sentence (here: they are not old), in Hungarian translation first you tell the clue and only then you explain what the hell are you talking about. I was checking with some Hungarians and they agree, despite the information is quite the same, this is messed up translation and order should be fixed.


What creatures are standing in front of the taxis,scary


They might be creatures, or they might be other taxis. You scare easily :)


What is wrong with, "Azok amik allnak ellott az uj taxik nem regiek"?


Your word order is off. It needs to be "azok, amik az uj taxik elott allnak, nem regiek" and that assumes that you're talking about things ("amik") and not people (in which case it has to be "akik" and "idosek").


A compliment to Duo. It accepts "azok nem idősek, akik az új taxik előtt állnak." Thus, people are accepted here and if we start with the English they certainly should be.


I wrote Azok nem regiek akik az uj taxik elott allnak Such a vague sentence to translate. If we are referring to people in English it is who or whom, whereas objects are that or which.


It took me far too long to remember that things are "régiek" and people are "idősek."

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