Is it just my router, or that Immersion isn't working properly?
For example, refreshes of Immersion gives me either 'No matching documents, and that stuff', or all the numbers next to the tick boxes (All, Travel, etc.) turn to 0. Furthermore, editing people's translations takes a lot of time in that Duo loads for an eternity before I could actually do the editing.
I have seen posts about Duo considering lifting Immersion off us, and I hope this isn't related to it, so I have put this post in Troubleshooting.
[edit: started 19:49 28.11.16 GMT]
[second edit :) : many thanks to Luis for clearing everything up. Immersion, get well soon]
[third edit :D : Immersion's back!]
[fourth edit: ffs why has Duo done this?! We all wanted Immersion!!]
Thank you so much!
Having said that, I have a question:
Is there any chance to curb a bit some Immersion users, who are MAD (Massive Anonymous Downvoters)?
Yes, a major problem on some boards (eg. English to Polish). A person should not be allowed to downvote unless he/she edits the sentence. Then at least you know who you're dealing with. I know a girl who had to get over a thousand upvotes in order to move up a level. Some idiot kept giving her downvotes almost every day. A lot of people on that board are discouraged and quit immersion altogether.
I also have a related question. There are some people on the site who change one word - often to a synonym and so get credit for the whole translation. I notice that they have reached very high translation levels - easy if you piggy-back on other people's work! I also feel uncomfortable if I change something small, like a typo or a wrong punctuation or spelling, and then get to share the credit for the translation.
Some people do that. Of course, it is not very fair. Among the usual translaters, there is an unwritten rule. When you make a minor correction, you type some /// or *** (no matter) at the end of the sentence so that the first translater could get his translation back by deleting these signs.
I usually just upvote first and then share credit. That way you aren't taking anything away from the other person.
It's just a courtesy to say, "I may be making a small change but I am not trying to steal your work". I think this is particularly important if you are at a much higher tier than the original translator, or the translator is very new. It shows that you are not trying to bully or intimidate a new user and thus destroy their confidence before they have really got started.
@piguy3 Thanks for the lingot, I appreciate the thought. :-) ..... I wasn't trying to imply that it was actually stealing the work for the reason outlined elswhere, it is more the perception that one is stealing that concerns me. New users are not always aware of the fact that credit goes down the whole line and therefore can feel cheated. I am not trying for one minute to imply that anyone is stealing the work.
@BenYoung84 I take your point about leaving articles littered with extraneous punctuation marks but in my experience, which has mainly been in translation groups, the original uploader has always proofread the finished document and removed any remaining at that point. This has at times included myself on documents I have uploaded. It has always been done with the uploader using the same system.
Perhaps, a better method would be to amend the translation and in addition to explaining why it was being amended add a note that they will continue to get credit however far down the list they go. It's a balance between getting the translation right and not discouraging new users because not all new users understand the system, so just saying credit shared doesn't always have the desired effect.
One thing which is abundantly clear is that all serious translators do want to achieve an accurate translation whilst helping each other irrespective of the method they are using and that is a very positive note to end on. :-)
Yes, compared to the // method that's more efficient, more collaborative and more in line with Duolingo guidelines.
piguy3 that would be fine except that Duolingo mods have confirmed that sharing credit is transitive, so if there's a chain of 10 people who've worked on an translation and each of them has shared credit, then all 10 receive the upvotes, as long as their tier isn't above the upvoter.
piguy3 - Leaving extra punctuation is not pure silliness for the simple reason that once the original translator has reedited the translation to remove the 3 dots, etc., he/she can be upvoted a second time - which is something I always do. The original translator not only is thus fast-tracked, but also gets to reclaim the original translation for his/her effort. And yes it does work that way - I see it in practice every day.
@lfphigenia But it's the "stealing your work" concept that's not actually accurate, given that upvotes are given to everyone. If you leave the "uv/sc" you've clearly indicated that their work is worthy of credit, it just needed a small tweak. As I began immersion into Russian, I was always most pleased when all that my work needed was a small tweak! I see how it's kind of a nice gesture, but it seems to be a nice gesture born completely of a misunderstanding (or perhaps an outdated understanding given that I'm aware thing were once different) of how upvotes work. A misunderstanding that new users particularly wouldn't have cause to share in.
@DrWho100 I suppose the fast-tracking is true, but it also seems to sort of go against the spirit of getting upvotes for actual work done. Of course, the system is set up that one can get an upvote for every 5 words worth of translating, which one almost never gets (at least in the languages I've worked in), for lack of translators, so I guess it kind of gets to one intent while going around another. But with shared-by-all upvotes the "reclaim the sentence" notion just seems wrongheaded. Having the translation that happens to be at the top of the stack is not something that holds value in and of itself. They're the first translator, they, presumably, learned the most from doing the translation. It'd be better if people focused on what they're learning instead of incidentals. I've only ever been glad for corrections, for they are immensely helpful for learning.
In any case, I give you both lingots for explaining the alternate perspective, something for which I have been in search for some time!
@SGutherie0 I think you just made an argument for why you shouldn't do the extra punctuation. You've made it to translation tiers 15 and 22 w/out knowing what it even means! What'a poor level 1 translator supposed to make of it? The "stealing" translation idea has no basis. Share credit, and make the correction so the poor folks have a chance to learn something. I'm glad the Russians brutally corrected my punctuation errors. I didn't have a clue about Russian punctuation and didn't know that I didn't know!
@BenYoung Thank you so much for this! I had definitely wondered. This confirms that the extra punctuation business is pure silliness, as I have previously suspected. I was just trying to figure out under what situation it could possibly be doing any good, figuring that so many do it, there must be a reason. But the madness of crowds is also a reason, obviously!
Ifphigenia of course that's a wonderful sentiment and I would support it if it didn't raise other issues. Issues such as original translators not reclaiming the translation and leaving extra punctuation there for months or years; 3rd party reviewers having to decide whether a translation with extra punctuation - which is clearly not a valid translation should be upvoted, changed or ignored, especially if there are further amendments required; all the extra time and effort required to manage all the dummy translations; the tendency of the extra punctuation method to only give credit to one translator, not recognising that Duolingo is designed to be collaborative. All of this runs contrary to Duolingo guidelines and the way the system has been established - sharing credit is there for a very important reason.
@Ifphigenia - I generally leave a comment saying I upvoted and shared credit, which hopefully has the same effect.
@DrWho100 - I don't believe it works that way, actually. I'm pretty sure that they won't count two votes from the same person on different translations of the same sentence, even if sharing credit all the way through (because I think I've tested this).
I suppose the logic of the extraneous punctuation method is that only 2 people get credit with credit shared, so in languages where numerous revisions actually do happen, it helps the person who really deserves credit remain among them. However, I've never really seen this spelled out by anyone who actually uses the system. As for me, I'm happy to upvote even the smallest correction, so I hardly feel bad receiving credit for the same.
Common in French, maybe. I've seen it much, much less in Portuguese and Russian. People should really turn on spellcheck and avert the typos. They should also learn the punctuation rules of their target (and, all too often, their own) languages and be grateful anyone cares enough to correct their errors so they can learn.
I agree with you entirely br0d4. Especially on French-English immersion you receive 4-5 upvotes but inevitably an anonymous down vote. And it's happening all the time. I recently had 524 upvotes and 60 downvotes, but luckily the upvotes grew and I could move up a level.
Great, thanks! And good to see that the protests of the many who use immersion are reaching the ears of those in high places ;-)
Very good to know. My vocabulary in Spanish has increased so much because of using Immersion that I can now do crosswords in Spanish. Marvelous.
Man, that had me scared. I was depressed enough to hear we will never get immersion for newer languages, and then I thought it was taken away completely. Immersion is absolutely my favorite thing about duolingo, I hope I am always able to use it. would pay money to use honestly.
Thanks for keeping it going!
Staff, do not remove the Immersion section because it is a very good way to learn and I recommend it to everyone. Immersion is the most important feature of Duolingo. It is the best way to improve the knowledge in different languages, and to collaborate with people from all the world, and make friends. If we remove this feature, Duolingo will collapse.
Please, DO NOT DO IT .
Thanks because stop (stopping ?) Immersion is a suicidal behavior for DuoLingo
Thanks so much for reassuring us. Could you possibly also let us know what the long term plan is for immersion as many of us are concerned about the possibility of losing it permanently.
Many thanks, Gena. :-)
Thanks for this good news! It would be a great loss if the immersion would be stopped. I hope you will fix the bug soon... :-)
Thanks a lot. Immersion is very important for me, and I miss these notices about edits and lingots for my articles)
Es funktioniert immer noch nicht, warum dauert das so lange? Die XPs werden nicht mehr gutgeschrieben, verliere irgendwann meinen Streak, der Baum war bei mir schon so oft golden, wird irgendwann langweilig! Möchte durch Übersetzungen und Korrekturen durch die Gemeinschaft in der Fremdsprache weiterkommen! Wann darf ich hoffen, dass dieser Fehler endlich behoben wird! Luis?? Danke for your comment! ;-) Anita
Luis, as an aside, I really like how the right side of my screen is showing related discussions. That is a helpful feature.
I'm getting the same. These sorts of bugs happen from time to time, though, and I think this has happened to Immersion before. I think if Duolingo had made the decision to get rid of Immersion today, our translation tiers would also have vanished from our profiles.
Thanks for possibly clearing up the worries. :)
Fair point, but people without the Immersion tab can still get translation tiers (if you translate articles from someone's profile)
Please may we know what is happening to Immersion. It's not a lot to ask and it would really help us if we knew, whatever it is.
If this is the end of immersion, it's a serious bummer. Gilding my tree for the necessary thousands of XPs I would need to ever get to level 25 is way too boring/not a valuable use of my language learning time. Sad face.
That is immensely reassuring! I thought this was the end of Immersion. And we love it not just for what we learn, but for the depth of the personal relationships cultivated by working together with people all over the world. Facebook and LinkedIn cannot begin to match this; it is a precious gift conferred by duolingo beyond all of the purely educational possibilities it offers.
Super Rob, I agree with you and everyone else who thinks and feels the same way! ;-)
Me too, my router, or that Immersion isn't working properly
Thank you :)
Same problem - "No matching documents, try adjusting your search criteria!"
Only started this morning.
EDIT: It is 24 hours later and no change - how long will it take to sort this "bug" out?
I find I am less regular with language practice (keep losing streaks) since immersion was removed. :(
missing XP alert! All the XP from today that I earned in immersion disappears when I refresh the screen. The only XP showing up from today is the 10 XP I got from skills.
Immersion is back !! thank you tech team of Duolingo for the hard work and being patient to our praises !!! Well done, excellent job !!!! Also, thanks to every person that posted his/her passion and commitment to this unbelievable global tool !!
I decided to go to Immersion exactly now... oh well. At least I can still work on the articles I've previously worked on when I go to "Edit."
Add my name to the problem list. I assume it's a problem with Duolingo's server. Hopefully, they will get it repaired soon.
I hope this is a temporary bug. I would hate to lose Immersion - so helpful in getting practical use of the languages I want to study. I too am getting 'no matching documents', but my immersion levels are still there. Can Duo reassure us that this is just a temporary glitch?
I am so relieved to read that it is a temporary bug. Immersion is the most valuable part of Duolingo. The ability to read texts in the language being learned and have a go at translating them and the possibility for others to give feedback and edit your attempts at translating is invaluable. It is the next step in language learning beyond the basics that one learns from completing all the lessons in the language trees. Hope to see immersion up and running again soon. It is still not working at 7:30 am Qld, Australian time.
I'm curious as to what duolingo's definition of temporary might be? I know you must be busy, but could we have a status update please?
Para cuando estará disponible, alguien puede aclararnos esto? Muchas gracias.
Holà Luis, please give us news about the bug and on the longevity of the immersion's menu.
Un grand bravo à toute l'équipe de développeurs DL. Merci la team duolingo. Bravo good job!
I have the same problem when I use the Immersion button. I can still get to articles from profiles or direct links. I wish I had kept a copy of all the articles I uploaded :(
For all its worth: I haven't been here long enough to actually have an "immersion button", but I can access the document I uploaded a while ago fine via direct link ... this is how I got there in the first place - maybe it helps you, too ...
I am experiencing the same issues (GMT +1) I am sure Duo Technical Staff will resolve it as soon as possible. They are usually rather fast. :) On the other hand, I do not think it is related to a Immersion deletion... not in this way... Good or bad news will be surely announced officially before any change will take place.
I hope someone from DL will come and tell us what is happening. It would be appreciated.
Me too! just today, even, because I did some Immersion yesterday around 7:00 A.M. Eastern time, and It worked.
I'm knowing too, it'ill be our fight of year end. We need to investigate what is happening really...
Yes, I am. It's exactly the same as before !
Edit: The time now is Saturday the 3rd of December at 17.30 GMT
How strange. You would think it would be universal, I do hope this isn't yet another AB test!
Yes, mine is back too now. Curiouser and curiouser as Alice said.
Sat 3rd Dec 18.05GMT
can't upload so many articles and pages to immersion. someone know if this is a temp problem or a new direction? I have tried several sites, but only Wikipedia is working until now...
There have been other posts about this, e.g. https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19715300
It looks like this is a deliberate decision. I can understand a glitch temporarily removing Immersion, but it's hard to see how a glitch could limit it to Wikipedia. And unlike with previous glitches, there's no indication that they're fixing it.
It's really not faire to let people think it's a glitch, and then remove it.
We were talking about something else - a few weeks before removing immersion they changed it to only allow articles from Wikipedia.
That said, I agree, maybe they had to remove it but I'm not happy about the way they did it.
Sorry, I should have read back a bit. I was not aware that they had recently limited the uploads to Wikipedia articles only. Why bother to do that when they were going to remove Immersion?
Indeed. That makes me think that at the time they hadn't yet decided to remove immersion, at least not as soon as they did.
Totally agree. Communication is what this site is supposed to be all about and they couldn't tell us straight.
Me too, in all my immersion languages. I have seen immersion glitches before but if this is a glitch it's a new manifestation.
It would be helpful if we could at least be given some information but if this is the update to remove immersion please Duo reconsider. This aspect of your site is the main reason why many of your long-term dedicated users remain. Far from removing immersion, it would be fairer to extend it to newer users who have to use workarounds to get it.
Immersion is the jewel in your crown, the only way to obtain real life experience in a spirit of collaboration and friendship with others here on Duo. It helps us to consolidate and deepen our language studies in a way that no other site has achieved.
Please Duo KEEP IMMERSION ALIVE!
The period of Santa Claus is over, and I think you are not old enough to believe it, you have to make a reason for it. Immersion of yesteryear is no more than a memory.
My immersion has been inactive for the past 24 hours . . . switched from Safari to Google but still will not load items to translate.
There is nothing wrong with your connection, no-one can access it, but we have been informed by Luis that the problem is a temporary bug and will be sorted soon. ;)
Estoy de acuerdo contigo sobre la primera parte, aunque dudo que sean problemas técnicos provenientes directamente de Duolingo.
No sé de donde pueden venir, pero no solo funciona mal Inmersión, Tu perfil tampoco va bien; solo puedo ver algo de ayer y lo que he hecho hoy.
He observado que cada cierto tiempo estos problemas tanto en Inmersión y en Actividad suceden, no así en Inicio. De hecho puedo estudiar de formaSEGURA a través de Inicio y en cambio no se puede traducir mediante Inmersión y parcialmente mediante Actividad, aunque los XP desaparecen como dice Camilla-danesa. Parece ser que hay en Duolingo Apartados seguros y otros no tanto y de ahí creo que pueden venir los problemas que tenemos
Va mal, efectivamente. Se han perdido XP, traducciones de ayer aparecen asignadas a otros y no hay textos disponibles en inmersión.
I have made a consolidation post here which directs affected users to both this post and GCHOTEAU's post here https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19226428
The consolidation post is here https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19342983
It is currently being downvoted into oblivion so, if we want all reports on the same page it needs upvoting so that people see it and are redirected to the two main existing posts. Please help if you agree.
It's being downvoted because, despite your best intentions, it's not a consolidation post, it's a duplicate post.
This post right here is the first one to be posted on this subject, so this post is the consolidated post. That's why everyone's posting their comments here.
Well, you are right somehow, but I am keeping an eye on this one and I see some people are just downvoting any comment here and in Gena's new post. When I do not agree I just do not vote, I only downvote if a comment seems agressive or off topic to me.
Yes, that's right - downvoting isn't for things we disagree with, it's for things that shouldn't be on the forums; posts that are abusive, off topic, duplicate, give wrong advice on a troubleshooting post or a sentence discussion, etc.
...and you're right, there's a bit of a problem at the moment with spam downvoting - people who just downvote everything they see. It's a tiny minority of forum users, though.
Iphigenia, I like your post, it adds to the discussion, and I see no reason for the downvotes!!!
Thanks Camilla, I think the downvote trolls and self appointed mods were out in force but it's not worth worrying about. "Little things please little minds" as my Mother always used to say. :-))