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  5. "Αυτός φέρνει το χυμό."

"Αυτός φέρνει το χυμό."

Translation:He brings the juice.

December 11, 2016

24 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

I appreciate the curve balls that DL Gk provides by sometimes having the nu with masc acc. and sometimes not, because the people often drop it but discussions from our moderators indicate that we'll see it with the nu in writing (in order not to confuse with neuter) and possibly sometimes in spoken Gk. I've read that Triandaphyllidis based his morphological principles to a great extent on folk songs and literature (Mackridge, The Modern Gk Language, 13), so it makes sense to me that rules change to reflect actual spoken usage today. But my question is whether there exists a group that makes these decisions akin to Real Academia Española (RAE) for Spanish? The latter has an impossible task, as the Spanish language is so diffuse in the many nations and regions that speak varieties of that language. RAE tries to provide some ground rules for normativity while also attempting to respect the fluid nature of the language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 234

There is the "Center of Greek Language" (Κέντρο Ελληνικής Γλώσσας). It's the organisation responsible for studying objectively the language's trends. But, grammar rules are defined by school grammar books which are written by linguists assigned by the Ministry of Education. The books are then examined and corrected by a high-level researcher of the Center of Greek Language and then published for use, so they are supposed to be objective. However, I think that each lingust assigned to write the official Greek grammar has their own opinions and views on the matter, and therefore the rules are not truly objective. But that's also a form of regulation, I guess. Truth is, such silly rules as the final -ν, are rules the Greeks couldn't care less about. The only incorrect thing on this particular matter is not to use the nu when needed. If you use it and its unnecessary, no one will care, except for grammar nazis, whose "undeniable opinions" change every 15 years, along with the school grammar books.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Ευχαριστώ πολύ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hafizen

This minute drop of a letter can be cause for much confusion among Greek learners. Thanks "troll1995" for the uncomplicated answer. =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tato_Huenupi

Why is it το χυμό and not ο χυμός?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 234

Τον χυμό is the accusative case of ο χυμός and is used when it's the object of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tato_Huenupi

But it says Το, not Τον. My brain is going to explode haha.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 234

It's because there is a rule for την,δεν,μην,στην that says that the -ν is omitted when it is not followed by κ,π,τ,ψ,ξ,γκ,γγ,μπ,ντ or a vowel. The rule has changed a few times in past years, and in the past, it applied also to τον. Now, that is not the case, and it's considered wrong to omit -ν in τον under any circumstances. But the course creators used the old version of the rule. Now that we are in beta, we cannot change the original greek sentences, but it's on our to-do list after we graduate from beta to add those missing -ν.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tato_Huenupi

Thank you very much Troll!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GarrettDiment

Thank you for the explanation and the work!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jezza11

Dear God! Now my brain is exploding too! I've just revised Accusatives for 4 hours and thought I had them nailed.

Perhaps there needs to be FEWER questions that involve NEUTER accusatives? (Currently 50-70% of this lesson involves neuter accusatives.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 322

Thank you. I thought we had a pretty fair variety. We'll need to add some newer sentences with the other genders. Oh, we wouldn't want to remove any sentences. By adding other sentences there will be selection.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexDaubri

So as of 2018 this sentence should be deleted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Axgol117

Thanks for the explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vale_221096

Hello, greetings from year 2020, as it seems this was written 3 years ago :p

Anyway, that rule is still valid? I mean, should I comply to this rule while doing the exercises, but in real life the rule doesn't apply any more?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 234

It's preferable to write τον in all cases. In speech you can omit the ν of τον if the following word starts with an appropriate letter as written above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dieter667754

I understood from this and other discussion treads, that DL accepts τον also if only το would be possible...But when I write "αυτός φέρνει τον χυμό" in the listening exercise, it is marked wrong...?!?

Is it because the voice says clearly "το"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexKent257256

Αυτός φέρνει τον χυμό ----surely?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 322

Yes, that's correct. Errors made before the course was released cannot be edit at this time. Of course Αυτός φέρνει τον χυμό. is an accepted translation,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna483447

What is the difference between Εσύ πίνεις τον χυμό (duolingo 7 questions back) and αυτός φέρνει το χυμό (duolingo this question)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Araucoforever

Another case of Duo contradicting its own tips for this lesson. I don't care about the "nazi linguists" who specify strict grammar rules but to keep the "ν" in "τον χυμό" is important to differentiate between accusative singular masculine and neuter. I hope that in the new tree Duo is consistent and not chaotic like in this knowledge tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dieter667754

To me, DL is not more chaotic than the real language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 322

And if you take into consideration the numerous changes to Greek over the years. No, I'm not referring to Ancient times but to recent years. The grammar was not finally codified until 1982 before that there were changes made very frequently. My own children were each taught a variety of different grammar.

So, it's logical that there are Greeks who don't know the rules we use on Duo...btw we use those taught in schools today, we have all the textbooks online.
But someone slipped up on this sentence and not only. We are aware of that and it's part of the reason we have created a new tree.

Thanks for you consideration, and patience.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Thanks, Jaye16. It's helpful to learn about or get reminded of the historical situation.

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