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  5. "När jag kom fram så hade hon…

"När jag kom fram hade hon redan gått."

Translation:When I arrived, she had already gone.

December 16, 2016

74 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geirhardur

Can someone explain to me why it has "fram så hade"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ginkkou

Those three words all have different purposes.

fram is part of kom fram. Komma fram = to arrive.
links the two clauses [When I came], then [she had already gone].
hade is part of hade gått, had gone. It's simply the verb of the main clause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

I just want to add that you can skip if you want to, it isn't required.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaroldWonh

Shouldn't the Swedish have a comma after fram? It would be so much easier to understand the construction if there was one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's entirely optional, mostly I guess because we don't really make that much of a breathing pause here - unlike English. Not using it is probably a lot more likely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SebaTinonis

thats is exactly what i posted on other discussion.. the non existence of commas, no pauses..so hard to separate each word when one listens .. so hard to understand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlennaJo

And I thought Americans were the 'fast talkers' of the world. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

What gave you that idea? Americans are famous internationally for talking loudly, slowly, and a lot - but not quickly. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kanwal_Raj

Komma fram :- Arrive (infinitive )

Kommer fram :- Arrive, arrives, arriving (present )

Kom fram :- Arrived ( past )

Kommit fram :- arrived (past participle )

Kom fram :- arrive ( imperative )

ÄR DETTA RÄTT ??

Is this sentence has the same meaning without


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yes. You can find declension tables on Wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/komma#Declension_4


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FarfarTom

Why is "så" in the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That's actually been answered above. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ReddySrikar

She had already gone, when I arrived Should this be accepted as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

We generally do not accept translations that change the sentence construction too much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GodlessGoat

What about: "When I turned up she had already left."? Is there a difference in meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I agree they're close, but "turning up" and "arriving" aren't really synonyms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GodlessGoat

Thanks for the clarification :) Can you by any chance think of a swedish expression that would come close to "turning up"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

dyka upp usually works. For a more formal setting, try infinna sig. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GodlessGoat

Tack så mycket! Nu när du säger det, tror jag att dyka upp faktiskt dök upp i kursen :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ilseliane

What does så mean here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please refer to Ginkkou's comment above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Franelittlecrest

I did put so in sentence, men var det fel


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Well, it doesn't make much sense in English here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlennaJo

What is the purpose of så in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please have a look at the top-most comment chain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlennaJo

Thanks! I got it on my laptop, but the app had no comments which is where I asked the question. The app is great in some ways but not in others. ;-/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yeah, that in particular is a spectacularly horrible feature of the app...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curiousminds

What is så doinh in this sentence? And could somebody please break down the word order of this for me? Its thrown me a bit


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please have a look at the top-most comment chain for .

As for the word order, it's because of the v2 rule. You need the verb of the main clause in second position, and the entire subclause in front - plus the conjunction - counts as the first unit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexWiens1

Why is it "hade hon" instead of "hon hade"? Is there a rule that I am missing here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GodlessGoat

It's because of the V2 rule: the predicate (inflected verb) should always be in the second place of a clause. If you leave out the , then you're right and the correct order is hon hade redan gått. But due to the the order is changed to så hade hon redan gått so that the verb remains in second place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steph.Ro

I don't think that's quite correct. If you leave out , it should be När jag kom fram, hade hon redan gått. This is because you start the sentence with a subclause. Think of the subclause as the first idea of the whole sentence which is then followed by the finite/conjugated verb of the main clause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anupsinghc

Arrived= kom fram?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Q_C

I translated this as a little more literally, would this be an acceptable translation or not?:

"When I came forward, she had already gone?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That really sounds like an awkward translation, to be honest. I don't think it should be accepted, although technically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/admich

What does "så" mean here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please see the top comment chain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/admich

Thank you. There were no comments when I wrote my question. The page was empty. May be it was a bug.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's a pretty common bug, at least in the Android app. And it's extremely annoying - learners don't get freely available help, and we get to reply over and over again to perfectly good questions that learners have no way of knowing have already been answered. So I'm really hoping it'll be fixed one day.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex525007

Would it be wrong if we had omitted "så" in the middle of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

No, that's also fine. The general recommendation is to include the if it either improves the flow of the text or helps avoid ambiguity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolyglotCanavar

Is "så" necessary and why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please see the top comment chain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheHerring

Is the så necessary? Is it equivalent to "then" in English in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please see the top comment chain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xango222

What is the purpose of "så" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please see the top comment chain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xango222

Thanks. Sorry for repeating what others asked. The feed seemed empty for me for some reason


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yeah, it's a common issue with the app. I don't mind. I know it's rarely the user's fault.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emily_Matthias

The "så" is confusing for me, because in English it implies causation, how do i understand where to use it in swedish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I wouldn't say it implies causation in English - rather, that something is chronological. First x, THEN y, so to speak.

That's what it's used for in Swedish as well, in this sense. We do use it a lot more, though - mostly because you can use it to make things clearer, and often to make a sentence sound better, but quite a lot colloquially because it's a very effective filler.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jared907

I got this right, but don't understand the grammar here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

There are quite a few things in place here. What are you wondering about more specifically, please? :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jupp993513

What about the så? Is it important here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

No, it can serve two purposes - clarity and sentence flow. But it's entirely optional.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TjiddeNieu

She had already gone? Shouldnt it be left?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Either way is a perfectly reasonable translation. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EwaDuVarra

Is så necessary here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dylrees

Is "arrived" in this sentence "kom fram" or "kom fram så"? If the former, why was the "så" needed? Thanks :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Just kom fram. For the , please see the other comments in this thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dylrees

Oh wow ok. In app, it showed no comments but now on my browser I see a lot lol. Sorry and thanks bro.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's no problem. I know the app is buggy. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith98606

What is the function of "fram så" in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidJCUSA

this was answered in top comment. I will paste part of it here...

fram is part of kom fram. Komma fram = to arrive. så links the two clauses [When I came], then [she had already gone].


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amuricys

Why is så needed here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlennaJo

I can't figure out the first part of this sentence. When I came from so had??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kaj769971

What does så mean here.

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