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"Αυτός είναι ο αγαπημένος μου ζωγράφος."

Translation:He is my favorite painter.

January 11, 2017

13 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16

Déjà vu moment for me. Haven't we already had this conversation where it was noted that "painters are artists but not all artists are painters?" And that "sculptors and photographers e.g. are also artists". Someone also pointed out that 'artist' was a hypernym covering a range of activities. All the dictionaries concur.

In addition, it should be pointed out that in a language learning lesson when a translation is required it is necessary that the words given be translated as has been pointed out by mizinamo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilSimmonds

He is my favourite artist - must be correct. Although artist has other meanings it is synonomous with painter in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I think this is probably too wide -- like translating αυτοκίνητο as "vehicle" -- all cars are vehicles but that doesn't make "vehicle" a good translation for "car".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilSimmonds

Rembrandt is my favourite artist?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

What about it? I'm not denying that that's a reasonable sentence in English, just that it's not a particularly good translation of the Greek sentence given.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeverleyWa893824

Sorry, but no matter how many times it has been up before, I continue to disagree. 'He is my favourite painter' just doesn't work. I just wonder whether it is the outside or inside of the house he has painted. 'Artist' should be accepted here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
  • "Artist" is also accepted.

  • However, ζωγράφος is the Greek word for "painter".

Check out the 7 dictionaries on this site

https://www.lexilogos.com/english/greek_dictionary.htm

And the definition of "painter" in these English dictionaries:

  • Oxford noun 1. an artist who paints pictures. "a German landscape painter" 2. a person whose job is painting buildings. "a self-employed painter and decorator" Definitions from Oxford Languages

And this:

Painter | Definition of Painter by Merriam-Websterwww.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › painter (Entry 1 of 3) : one that paints: such as. a : an artist who paints. b : one who applies paint especially as an occupation.

So, a painter can be someone who paints pictures...or a house. But since we have the Greek word for "painter" that is the correct translation.

Here are some other uses of the word "painter" for those who paint pictures.

The https://mymodernmet.com/greatest-painters-of-all-time/

The 101 Most Important Painters of all time - The Art Wolfwww.theartwolf.com › articles › most-important-painters

https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&biw=1360&bih=593&sxsrf=ALeKk03_9ab1RlYzzMGjnjw-8h36WDw6rw:1602273192331&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=famous+painters&ved=2ahUKEwjP4djjpKjsAhVRBGMBHXa9CAgQjJkEegQICRAB

  • "artist" in Greek is "καλλιτέχνης" and may encompass a variety of artistic methods.

For example: The arts have also been classified as seven: painting, architecture, sculpture, literature, music, performing and cinema.

The arts - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › The_arts


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeverleyWa893824

Jaye, I'm a native speaker of British English and no matter what the dictionaries say, if I was looking at a painting in an art gallery I would ask "Who's the artist?" I think it would be true to say that the default interpretation of 'artist' is 'painter'. But if any of the other forms of art is concerned, one tends to be more specific (Who's the sculptor? Who's the architect?)). I've checked with other native speakers and they agreed. You say 'artist' is accepted, but I got a discordant clang when I entered it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16

We cannot know why your sentence was rejected without seeing the whole sentence. If a sentence is rejected you should make a Report...see the bottom of the exercise page and send a screenshot. Since both "artist" and "painter" are accepted (more on this below) there seems to have been some error which you overlooked.
The knowledge of what native British English speakers tend to use to refer to a concept is very helpful and according to you should take precedence over the dictionaries and other references.
I do, however, have a question.
In the sentence used in this exercise, how do we know that we are referring to a "painter? We do not know if you are standing in front of a "painting" or "some other form of art. What we do know is the translation of the Greek...which means "painter" not "καλλιτέχνης" which is "artist".

From what you say what matters is what you "tend to use" not the fact that the Greek word means "painter" nor that there is another Greek word for "artist".
Your comments here have given us reasons to rethink our acceptance of "artist" since "ζωγράφος'" is specifically a "painter" which is what is being taught here.
We will review this sentence for the new tree and remove "artist' as being too vague and not specifically the translation of the Greek word being taught ("ζωγράφος" => "painter") and will retain the use of "artist" specifically for the Greek word "καλλιτέχνης".

Thank you for your input.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeverleyWa893824

When a sentence is rejected I always submit a report before I comment. My sentence including the word 'artist' was rejected repeatedly, despite your assertion that 'artist' has in fact been accepted up to now. And I had not overlooked any error. I reported it at least twice, probably more than that. And yes, I trust my native intuition more than I do a row of dictionaries. Not so long ago I used a word that came from Duolingo's own dictionary, in the form of a prompt. It was rejected, I asked why, and you told me the second option was unreliable. A translator colleague googled 'artist' and 'painter' out of interest and reported back "You're quite right - 'artist' is used far more widely than 'painter' in articles in real contexts." Re your question: as I said in my previous comment, the default interpretation of the word 'artist', in the absence of context, is a person with a paintbrush. In real life situations there would be context, and it is in real life I speak natural English and hope one day to speak Greek. There is a button labelled 'Skip', the function of which has never been clear to me. I recommend in all seriousness that a button be introduced that enables learners to 'Move on' if they are satisfied that they have understood the meaning of a Greek phrase or sentence, rather than have it rejected repeatedly until they are obliged to type in something that seems stilted or unnatural to them in order to be able to proceed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16

All that you write is interesting and clearly carefully thought out and contains referenced.

There remains only one issue here.

The Greek word "ζωγράφος" means "painter" and hard as we try to implement your ideas we can't diverge from that meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daKanga

Also just to mention, in this course, we are seeking to teach Greek for English speakers.

Definitions and concepts of different words differ between different languages.

And the concept that English have been painter and artist is different in different languages. As in this case. In English, it is interchangeable in concept. In Greek, it is not.

Which, I always find ever so interesting to find out about.

The underlying differences in understanding the world and difference in culture, that is imbedded in thinking, in the words and grammar, of different languages. It is fascinating.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeverleyWa893824

Sometimes I feel that Duolingo is trying to teach me English as well as Greek! But yes, it is fascinating!

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