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  5. "Η φράση της έχει δύο προτάσε…

"Η φράση της έχει δύο προτάσεις με υποκείμενο ρήμα και αντικείμενο."

Translation:Her phrase has two sentences with a subject, verb, and object.

January 16, 2017

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alainPierrot

Wouldn't "Her sentence has two propositions…" be the usual grammatical terminology?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 238

Preposition=πρόθεση, sentence=πρόταση. They are different ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I think "proposition" (note pro-, not pre-) is French linguistic terminology for what English calls a "clause".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 238

Really? Didn't know that...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Wikipedia seems to bear this out: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_(grammaire) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause link to each other.

So perhaps Duo's sentence should be "Her sentence has two clauses with a subject, verb, and object" -- because "phrases" are usually smaller than a sentence (a noun phrase might be simply "this big man", for example), and sentences make up paragraphs but clauses make up sentences.

"Because it is raining, I will take the umbrella" is a sentence composed of two clauses, for example - a subordinate clause plus a main clause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alainPierrot

Yep, I'd agree more easily to this! ("Phrase", in French "espression", is usually a syntactic way of speaking smaller than a clause or complete sentence utterance…)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/troll1995
Mod
  • 238

So, "sentence" is what we call "περίοδος" in Greek grammar, and "clause" what we call "πρόταση". Proposition is "πρόταση" but in the meaning of offer, no? Does it also exist in linguistics?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alainPierrot

you are right (I'm French) — and "clause" would be a more usual English term!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alainPierrot

@ troll: French "proposition" has many meanings and uses!

"proposal", "offer", etc. - and is also a grammar term for "clause", so it would fit your "πρόταση" [is that really proparoxyton? — it always disturbs my old classical Greek training!] Moreover, for French speakers,  πρόταση is linked with syllogistics, we would expect ἀπόδοσις|απόδοση  sigh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Yes, words in -ις got turned into -η without changing the accent, so you have δύναμη, πρόταση, απόδοση etc :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirakrakra

The Greek πρόταση 1. proposal 2. Math. proposition 3. gram. sentence, clause...

ancient Gr. πρότασις fr. προτείνω/propose, the syllogistic significance is ancient, the gram. significance is hellenistic influenced by the Latin "proposition" (the Fr. proposition must be from Latin)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 326

@troll "sentence" is quite simply "προταση" it must contain a subject and predicate (unless it is imperative). A clause may also have a subject and predicate but cannot stand alone e.g, "Because it is raining (see mizinamo above) =clause A phrase has either a subject or predicate but not both and is part of a sentence or clause. And what we have above I think is ready for a change. Trello here it comes. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I don't know of "proposition" as an English term in linguistics -- as you say, it can be used as an offer or suggestion.

"Proposition" is also a term in studying logic, I think, but that's a rather different area than language grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alainPierrot

John Lyons is using "proposition" in many places of his Semantics — he's obviously not the first one to delve on the articulaion of morphosyntax, semantics, logic and linguistics of utterances (or rhetorics?) since Aristotle and some Plato!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 326

This sentence does not make any sense. "A phrase" is a group of words and part of a sentence it cannot contain a sentence. I think this was meant to be: "Her sentence has two phrases...' But then where do "subject (needs comma) verb and object" come in. This needs to be dumped and restarted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I think we've converged on "Her sentence has two clauses" -- each clause containing subject, verb, and object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alainPierrot

on my behalf, mizinamo's translation works well: 'sentence' for the complete, meaningful, utterance.

'clauses' for segments of the sentence, such as they can be formalized in a grammar, with 'subject', 'verb', 'complement'

and 'clauses' being articulated with 'conjunctions' (either of 'subordination' or 'coordination' in french grammatical terminology)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Very similarly in English: "coordinating conjunctions" and "subordinating conjunctions" is what I have heard them called, especially in the discussion (in English) of the grammar of German, where the difference between c.c and s.c is essential to the word order of the clauses.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaye16
Mod
  • 326

Yes, well done. Now it does make sense but the Greek still doesn't say that. It can though be edited...in the next tree. A clause in Greek is πρόταση συντακτική. So, however we look at it the first noun (φράση) phrase is wrong since it cannot contain a sentence. UNLESS: what was meant was "έκφραση". Hmm, could that be it?

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