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  5. "Quanto ti ho pensata!"

"Quanto ti ho pensata!"

Translation:How much I have thought of you!

February 19, 2013

62 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KSmitch

You ever see something for the first time and, after realizing it makes no sense, you take a stab at it anyway and surprisingly get it right on the first try? Isn't that nice? It's kind of like opening the dictionary to the exact page you wanted to go to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rossemilie

This is a great phrase! By this time, I am able to test out and speed up my progress.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cj_Fresco

Just happened here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/webMan1

So in this instance, someone is thinking of one woman?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robert0n

Yes, that's my understanding too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wenchemc

What would it be if someone was thinking of one man?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leticiapaola84

It would be "ti ho pensato"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carleila

I'm having difficulty with this use of past participles ending with 'a' but conjugated with the verb avere. 'Quanto ti ho pensata' , 'L'ho trovata' and so on. Can someone help by explaining why these don't end in 'o'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2551

The rule is that when a clitic is included in the conjugation the participle takes on the gender and number of the object instead of the subject; not all grammars agree though, and the accepted usage is that while recommended it's only truly mandatory when there is room for misinterpretation e.g. "l'ho trovato" vs "l'ho trovata" (you wouldn't know if it's him or her without the participle's gender). A few years ago Roberto Benigni sang "Quanto t'ho amato e quanto t'amo non lo sai" (how much I loved you and how much I love you, you don't know) and only a handful questioned the grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FullRinse

I'm pretty sure the participles agree only with lo,la, li, le, and not with mi ti, ci ,vi though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2551

Nope; as an academic of the Crusca wrote at http://www.accademiadellacrusca.it/it/lingua-italiana/consulenza-linguistica/domande-risposte/accordo-participio-passato "La possibilità di scelta per i punti 2, 3 e 4 è esistita da sempre in italiano e le restrizioni di tanto in tanto indicate da qualche grammatico sono da considerarsi infondate" (the possibility of choice for points 2, 3 and 4 has always existed in Italian and the restrictions from time to time indicated by some grammarian have to be considered baseless). Point 2 is this case (direct object as a pronoun preceding the verb): note the example "ci ha ingannato" - "ci ha ingannati".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carleila

thank you so much. Very helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italiaoo

Why not "How much have I thought of you?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abshirdi

No, because the italian sentence does not imply/suggest a question, but - on the contrary - it is an exclamation about a very deep feeling.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italiaoo

Ah, I mean:

<Why not?

"How much have I thought of you!">


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abshirdi

Now you have just changed the interrogation for an exclamation mark. Therefore, you also changed the meaning of your sentence, but you'd rather change the position of the auxiliary verb, as well, by placing it after the subject. So, the sentence would be exactly as proposed by Duolingo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sureed

To me "How much have I thought of you!" sounds equally (if not more) natural in English. I have reported this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robert0n

Hmmm... To me "How much have I thought of you!" works but only in very dramatic terms. It really wants the question mark instead.

As you've written it, itwould work for Shakespeare but I think it's reasonable that DL won't take it :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ManlyStump

As a native English speaker, I have to disagree. I couldn't imagine wording it that way, it just sounds strange.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmmaus

Coud this be "How many times I have thought of you!" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ManlyStump

I don't think so, because "quanto" is singular, so it's how much, not how many.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanKing1

That would be, "Quante volte ti ho pensata".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kmandadad

I put that and it was wrong. I guess it depends on how you were taught to say it. It seems most natural to me also.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/c.s.k

All regions have differences on how they speak. I am not being disrespectful but just wondering where you are from and if English is your first language. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanJSDK

Pensata needs a better explanation in this sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandrabruck

There is a good explanation for this phenomena from the Accademia della Crusca, but the whole text is in Italian: http://bit.ly/1leGmy2


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharkbbb

A semi-automatic translation/adaptation attempt:

Question

A. Dell'Era asks: If the intransitive form of "pensare" in the expressions "penso a mia figlia", "penso a mio fratello", etc., why does the verb become transitive when the noun is replaced by the pronoun? ("La penso", "lo penso" instead of "le penso", "gli penso"). Other users have expressed similar perplexities.

The verb "pensare" with the atonic pronouns

The verb "pensare" can be both transitive and therefore hold an object complement, and intransitive and supporting an indirect complement, which however is not a term complement, but a locative. Let's see in detail the two cases:

When it is transitive, the most recurring form is that with the anticipation of the object complement with the atonic pronoun, so "la penso", "lo penso" even if the corresponding forms "penso lei", "penso lui" are not incorrect; it is true that they can be perceived as unusual, but in reality they are more natural, and they are even more used, in contexts where they are accompanied by some predicative form, such as "penso lui ancora giovane e snello". Also at the semantic level there are subtle differences between transitive pensare that is so defined, in Tullio De Mauro's Grande Dizionario italiano dell'uso: "raffigurare con la mente, esaminare con il pensiero, anche escogitare, inventare" ("to imagine with the mind, to examine with thought, also to devise, invent") and intransitive pensare, which instead assumes the meaning of "avere il pensiero rivolto a qualcuno o a qualcosa" ("having the thought turned to someone or something"), with an affective connotation that in the first case is less relevant.

In the intransitive form the verb "pensare" is followed by a complement ruled by the preposition "a", a complement which however contrary to what might seem, is not a term complement, but a complement that indicates the place, real or metaphorical, to which the thought is addressed. In the passage from the tonic form that follows the verb, like "sto pensando a lei", to the atonic form that precedes the verb, just by virtue of the fact that it is a locative, the clitic is inserted there, thus "ci sto pensando" even when the object of thought is a person. In fact, limited to the form "ci penso", it has also been hypothesized that the disapproval of the grammarians with respect to the popular use, widespread in some Italian regions, of "ci" as a complement of the term referred as third and sixth person ("ci dico" for "gli/le dico, dico loro").

To verify this peculiarity of the verb "pensare" it is possible to perform, for example, a search for the sequences "le penso" and "gli penso" in the CD-ROM of Letteratura Italiana Zanichelli which has a search engine that allows you to identify a given sequence on a corpus of about 1,000 texts of Italian literature from its origins until today: the result of this research offers a unique context in Orlando Furioso (canto 29, octave 71: "Orlando non le pensa e non la guarda" referring to a dying beast), which turns out to be the only case attested, also confirmed by the critical edition of the Orlando Furioso edited by Santorre Debenedetti and Cesare Segre (Bologna, 1960).

For further information:

  • A. Leone, Conversazioni sulla lingua italiana, Florence, Leo S. Olschki Editor, 2002, pp. 53-4.
  • L. Renzi, Grande grammatica italiana di consultazione, Bologna, Il Mulino, 1991, vol. I, p. 568.
  • L. Serianni, Italiano, Milan, Garzanti, 2000, p. 179.

Curated by Raffaella Setti Drafting Linguistic Consultancy Accademia della Crusca


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomBushaw

Holy smokes! I'm going to need the weekend to digest this! Thanks sharkbbb!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AncientBat

Sorry, neither correct answer is natural English. We'd say 'I've thought of you so much'. However, we would say How much you mean to me'. Roberto Benigni sang "Quanto t'ho amato e quanto t'amo non lo sai" but we would reverse the order (you don't know how (much) I loved you and how (much) I love you (still)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaB_Duolingo

From one old bat to another - I think you're right. We'd say: 'I thought about you SO much!' :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kerry555

why does it show "idea" as a new word


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/travel.linguist

I suppose this answer to be wrong because I know that "pensare" is a intransitive verb which makes its objects indirect ones. Because of this, I think it has to be "pensato" and not "pensata" no matter one is talking about a woman or a man. Only direct objects require the past participle to be changed by gender.

What do you think?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moekalem

Is this phrase of someone thinking of a person of female gender? hence "pensata", or is it used when used by a female gender thinking of any gender in general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharkbbb

When the auxiliary verb is avere, the past participle reflects the gender/number of the direct object represented by the atonic/clitic pronoun.

  • mandatory for lo, l', la, li, le
  • optional for mi, ti, ci, vi
  • never for tonic/non-clitic pronouns
  • never for indirect objects
  • never for named objects

When the auxiliary verb is essere, the past participle reflects the gender/number of the subject (always mandatory).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/c.s.k

I appreciate this free program but I do have a question. If I'm receiving sentences that are that poorly understood in English, then how do I know about the quality of the translation to Italian? Thanks for all of the help that everyone gives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gina566455

Sentences such as this show how Italian is more romantic than English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abshirdi

Ok, it's perfect. But my translation - I HAVE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT YOU! - is correct, as well. Duolingo's other option is - "I have thought about you a lot!"-, which is correct, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomBushaw

So close! Duolingo wouldn't accept "How much have I thought of you!", but I guess this is the form it would take (in English) if it were a question, as noted in prior posts... The most natural translation to English (in my opinion, of course) would be "I have thought of you so much!".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/julien_K

I said "i have thought so much about you" and it is refused. Can't see a reason why


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HIROMI-IRIYAMA

Perche'' "Quanto t'ho pensata!" e' sbagliato ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/falcieri

No wonder I couldn't get this. The sentence makes no sense in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnhateley

Nice one leticia


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/c.s.k

With listening to all of the intellectual rules that want to support this sentence, it finally comes down to the fact that spoken laguage came first. The sentence does not work as currently written.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heather163006

I put 'How did I think of you!' and it was marked correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdithA.Tressl

I wrote "How much I thought of you ! " and it was correct and I think it needs the exclamation mark !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bjojoe

Difficult....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WimXL
  • 1759

"How much have i thought of you" is wrong. . I am not an English native and though here we learn Spanish, it surprises me that the reversal is wrong. Is it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John698247

Why not "how long did you think of me?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KathyAOF

If pensata, in this instance, means thought, why is the dropdown clue saying (only) idea? That is confusing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MagneSolhe

No one says this sentence in English!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gina566455

I guess Italians are more romantic than English speakers. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leoalpha5293

why not pensato


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomBushaw

When the direct object pronoun (ti) precedes the past participle (pensato/a/i/e), the past participle needs to agree in gender with the direct object pronoun. So, in this case, the Italian sentence, in particular the past participle "pensata", indicates that "ti" is referring to a (only one) female. "Quanto ti ho pensato" would indicate "ti" is a man, "Quanto vi ho pensate" would indicate more than one female, "Quanto vi ho pensati" would indicate all males or a mix of males and females, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CillaConwa

Ah ... I was going to complain about the English here, but from the comments fformica made I realise it was from a song. Still terrible English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheehanphoto

No (American) english speaker would talk like this. "I have thought about you a lot." would be more likely. You might find this in a romance novel set in the 1800's with a heroine named Lady Catherine. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/acmodeu

Why can't i say "Quanto ti ho pensato!"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate3010

Why isn't it 'pensato'? Just can't get the hang of this!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

you can use "pensato" it is correct as well DL tips: If the verb is conjugated with a third person direct object clitic (lo, la, l', li, le) or (with some exceptions) the partitive clitic (ne), it must match gender and number of the clitic: Andrea li ha letti. Andrea has read them. If the verb is conjugated with any other direct object clitic, it can optionally match its gender and number: Antonio mi ha chiamata. OR Antonio mi ha chiamato. Antonio called me. (For a feminine "me.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen142736

Still sounds like passata

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