https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

When do the lessons change? I'm on lesson 7 and it's the same as lesson 1.

When do the lesson change to a different process? I've done 7 lessons and it's exactly the same format as lesson 1 just with different words.

February 15, 2017

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
Mod
  • 990

The first seven lessons are just the absolute basics - the course creators assume that you're starting with no prior knowledge of Greek, not even the alphabet. The next eight are still pretty basic but are a bit more interesting. After that is where it starts to get quite involved - you begin learning accusative and genitive and so on. If you feel that you've already got a decent handle on the Greek basics, you can try testing out of the coming eight skills and jump down a little.

Trust me, it's definitely worth persevering! Good luck.

February 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

I made a mistake. I have completed 22 lessons. But it's the same lesson format over and over again. There doesn't seem to be any change in how the software interacts with the user. Am I missing something?

February 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
Mod
  • 990

Well, you should be given, in rough order of frequency:

  • Sentences in Greek to translate to English
  • Sentences in English to translate to Greek
  • Audio sentences in Greek to listen to and then transcribe
  • A selection of three sentences where you have to choose all which are correct
  • Pictures of items where you have to name them in Greek
  • Sentences where you need to fill in the missing word

And that's pretty much it, really. The strengthening exercises tend to be a bit more involved than the learning lessons, but each event will take one of the above forms.

I know that some of the other Duo courses that have many more users (and which have been worked on for a much longer period) have additional tests such as speaking a sentence and getting marked on your pronunciation. The Greek course doesn't have such features yet and all tests/events will take one of the above six forms. But it's still a very good course, IMHO.

February 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

I was expecting something more interactive. Like a statement in Greek would say "give me the blue coat". Then there would be a picture of icons showing different objects and one would be a blue coat and the user would have to select it. Or more conversation. The computer would ask a question about something like a picture of a beach. The question would be "How many people are in the water". And the user would answer. That way there is practice hearing a phrase then answering instead of straight exercises.

February 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

Are you on the net or a telephone? On the net there is a great variety of exercise formats. On the Android it is mostly arranging words in sentences.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

Both. But it seems that once you've completed the first 10 lessons nothing changes except the words. It's like the same routine over and over.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, what spdl79 delineates above is the basic format of the all the courses on Duolingo. We know that a lot of research went into this and we see from experience that it is successful. If in the future more variety could be added it would be welcome.

For further information re the methodology see here You will find further links which I hope will help.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

Do you know where the research is? I'm honestly curious what the research showed.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

I think some of the links will give further details re the research.

.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

Which links are you referring to?

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

In the Wiki article Wiki there are links to other articles (shown in blue).

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

Thank you. But, Duolingo funded the study so it is already suspect. I'd love to see a study of people starting with no language experience in a particular language, finishing Duolingo and then passing the regent exams.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

Yes, well if there are any independent studies they'll be on the internet so you'll be able to find them. Be advised that at no time does Duo state you will pass any exams.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

Yeah, I understand they make no claims about tests. I wish the developers of these language apps would "test" their users regularly and see how effective the courses are . Then make changes. For example, what is the drop out rate? Why do people drop? What are they not getting from the application that causes them to drop out.?...etc. When users complete all the lessons can they have a conversation in the language (which is what most people want)?

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Ooh, they do. Duolingo tests every change they make to see how it affects user retention. They also test how things affect learning outcomes. If in a session a sentence pops up that seems out of places (like a question about a dog or a cat or a baby in the politics section), that's probably a test that Duo is using to measure learning outcomes. I have come across many such sentences in my time.

Have a look here: http://making.duolingo.com/how-we-learn-how-you-learn At the bottom you'll see a link to the full-on academic version from the Proceedings of the Association for Computational Linguistics.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

I can't thank you enough. Although I knew all this and more was being done I never had the link.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

Thank you for the links. But then why doesn't Duolingo dynamically change the content of my future lessons to include things that I'm not retaining? This way my lessons dynamically change to include more things I need to work while someone else who may (for example) master past simple tense moves on to future continuous are gets more complicate sentences? Why is the content basically the same for everyone?

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Have you used any of the strengthen buttons? If any of the skills in your trees are any color but gold, that behavior has been dictated by the spaced repetition algorithms. SRS by its nature works on things you've already gone over, not things you haven't done yet.

A common complaint (ill founded to my mind, but common nonetheless) is that an individual "can't" move on because they don't have time to keep their tree gold since too many skills turn color and need to be reviewed each day.

Also, there's tons more content in the course that you only get through strengthening. The lessons that are unlocked one by one are just the beginning.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

When I repeat a lesson with the strengthen button Duolingo seems to repeat the entire lesson. Even the words I never miss. Which takes up so much time to redo as is boring. If Duolingo knows my weaknesses then why doesn't Duolingo dynamically create lessons that are specific to my needs? If I am weak in prepositions then include prepositions in a lesson on future continuous.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

@ gcostaki

I don't precisely desire that in the lessons proper. They're ordered to introduce new vocabulary and should probably constitute a relatively small portion of the time a dedicated learner spends with the tree, but I certainly do share the wish that the overall strengthening be a good deal less skill-centric and select the weakest words from whatever skill they might be in.

At least the more you strengthen a skill, the more you have to write in Greek.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

I just find the layout strange because I know enough Greek before starting Duolingo that I can say more complex phrases like, "I need to go and buy food for dinner tonight" or "I want you to read the book to me". But, I don't know the word for "engineer" so I'm a beginner. That doesn't seem to make sense.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Indeed, it can be difficult to find the parts of the tree with content useful to you if one comes to Duolingo with a certain level of knowledge. I started here for Russian and as I worked through the tree the first time could usually almost, but not quite, pass the quiz-outs for the individual skills. So I chose to go through the lessons quickly and just keep a list of the ones that seemed to have substantial content of interest to me. Duolingo is certainly set up to cater to absolute beginners. If you arrive with a certain level of knowledge, finding where to focus can certainly be more difficult. The system can't know what you already know if you just do the first 7 skills over and over again. But it can easily be the case that what you already know is concentrated in different skills in very different parts of the tree. This is why there is a quiz-out option for every individual lesson. If what you need to work on is things like prepositions or case forms, of course those just appear naturally throughout the entire tree, so just working through it will provide practice. If you need help with certain tenses or categories of vocab, it's clear enough where to look.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

What can I say? I agree with everything you have written and thank you for explaining the methodology of Duo and the best way to use it. This should be read by every learner and in particular those who come to Duo with some knowledge of a language. Thank you very much, we are grateful for your support.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

It does. What you are doing now is called Basic. It is the third testing ground. After that, we go into the regular Tree that might be months away where all the information gathered here will be utilized. That should be stable for a while but it will be updated regularly. All the input from the community is valuable and appreciated.

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gcostaki

When does basics end? So "genitive" is a basic lesson but art (way down on the list) is advanced?

February 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16

Well, no the whole course is called Basic (not to be confused with Basic 1 and Basic 2 at the start of the list which contain simple phrases. All skills are on the same level and all are being tested of course those toward the end are more complex.

February 20, 2017
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