https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79

Picture questions

G'day,

Dimitra, Troll, Jaye and all you other helpful mods - this is a question for you guys.

The picture questions - ie where you get shown three pictures of something, and are asked to provide the Greek for them - are very inconsistent over whether they require an article to be used or not.

For example, tonight I was asked to provide the Greek for 'love' and for 'mirror' a bit later on.

In the first instance, I was marked incorrectly for providing 'αγάπη' without an article. In the second, I was marked incorrectly for providing 'ο καθρέφτης' with an article.

I've come across this particular issue quite frequently over the past few months and have always reported it, but perhaps the reports aren't getting through? Or are these like the random 'ghost' sentences that still keep turning up even after they've been amended or deleted?

Just wondering as it can be a bit frustrating sometimes trying to second-guess whether an article is needed or not.

All the best, Sean

February 27, 2017

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JacobPast177

Just for interest's/completeness' sake: User Snommelp made a post about this problem in October 2016 (https://www.duolingo.com/comment/18538837).

I had been collecting some of these (the 'English without article/Greek with article' ones: avenue - η λεωφόρος; garden - ο κήπος; market - η αγορά; protection - η προστασία; peace - η ειρήνη; building - το κτίριο), but I stopped after discussing the problem with Jaye a while ago and realizing that the moderators can't do anything about it. Here is a link to some screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/kZF8N).

It is interesting to note that if you do use the report button on these exercises you never get the usual "Thanks for your report" message—a sure sign that these reports are "disappearing into the void" as mizinamo has said. To make things worse the 'Discuss sentence' button is missing completely...

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
Mod
  • 932

Thanks Jacob, that's really helpful. And you're right, you never get the message. As I said before, it's not a critical problem, but it is a little frustrating sometimes!

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Just came across another one (although not an article issue): ο ποταμός should also be accepted for 'the river', but isn't.

March 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

I just saw Jacob's post in which he has a list. I'm sorry he stopped keeping track. From now on I will collect as many as I can and report them individually and would appreciate any you come across and as mizinamo says please: "...ideal would be if you could identify the skill and the lesson number within the skill". What was the issue with "ο ποταμός" because it sounds fine for "the river". Where did you find it and what type of question was it? Maybe you could get screen shots it would help so much. Many thanks.

March 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

One more: "μπαρ" was marked as incorrect for "bar". General strengthening exercise on web.

April 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Thanks for the image!

Looking for where μπαρ is taught, there's one place in each tree... but the picture exercise has "the bar" as the prompt for each of them. (And for Tree 1, it says "edited 1 year ago"....)

Very curious.

April 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
Mod
  • 932

Hi Jaye,

It was just in a general strengthening exercise (I finished the tree quite some time ago, aim for 70xp a day and therefore hardly ever have to work on individual skills).

The issue was that I was presented with 'the river' and three pictures and asked to provide the Greek word for it. ο ποταμός was marked as incorrect and I was told that the correct word is το ποτάμι.

I think that both words are equally valid (although is ποταμός perhaps slightly more literary/formal?)

Will take screenshots and post them here in future, unless someone else already has.

All the best, Sean

March 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

One more: For "the motorcycle", I was marked incorrectly for "η μοτοσυκλέτα". (The two accepted words were η μηχανή and το μηχανάκι). This was just in a general strengthening exercise.

March 8, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Found it now, I hope.

Tricky -- there's a "the motorbike" introduced in the "Travel" lesson which wanted η μοτοσικλέτα, and a "the motorcycle" introduced in the "Transportation" lesson which wanted το μηχανάκι!

Travel and Transportation, motorbike and motorcycle....

At any rate, both picture exercises now accept both words (μηχανάκι, μοτοσ[υ/ι]κλέτα).

I also see that Tree 2 has an empty Transportation lesson, so that confusion should not happen there for now.

May 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Thanks once again mizinamo!

May 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

One more: For 'team' (no 'the'), you're marked incorrectly unless you include an article. Came up in a general strengthening exercise.

March 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
Mod
  • 378

Now that 'mizinamo' has taught me how to correct image exercises I'm going through those you and others have reported and will add the article or alternative words so that all will be accepted.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Oh, fantastic! Thanks so much to you both!

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Howdy Jaye, are you still working your way through them? If not, peace/ειρήνη is still marked as incorrect unless an article is used.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Added ειρήνη (and marked as "best"); η ειρήνη is still accepted.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Thank you!

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

That is excellent. No, not the rejection :) but the screenshot. I'm adding it to the list. I think this is the first one of "the team" we've come across. Many thanks.

March 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Jaye, you probably took care of this when you updated the previous picture exercises but I had to remember that there are two trees now and each of them had the picture exercise, so I edited both of them.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Here's another which I don't think has been reported yet - 'plain'. Came up in a general strengthening exercise.

March 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

Gads, that is a prime example. Thanks, Sean. It goes on the list.

March 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

One more for you - not an article problem, but το πανωφόρι was marked as incorrect for 'the coat', 'το παλτό' seeming to be the only correct answer.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

@spdl79 Sigh! I have already added the η to ειρήνη so, as I feared, those areas do not pick up on our edits. I'll report it. So, sorry. EDIT just saw mizinamo's post which was a few mins before mine. So, perhaps it was his edit I saw. Let's hope that's the case and it will be corrected.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

@mizinamo Well, we seem to have covered everything. Let's keep our fingers crossed that it takes.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Unfortunately "ομάδα" is still being marked as incorrect for "team" - I'm not sure if this is because of the dual tree issue or something else.

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

One more, if you'd be so kind - just a synonym issue, not an article problem. "The motorcycle" marks "η μοτοσυκλέτα" (and presumably the version with a iota, too) as incorrect. If you could add, that'd be great.

May 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

πανωφόρι appears for each sentence containing "coat". I had thought we weren't able to correct it but "mizinamo" has just shown me how to do it. Now, we may also be able to rectify those preposition errors. I do apologize for not knowing about this sooner.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

I'm not sure what you mean with "not under our administration".

https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/el/en/editor/e1a05747003976b3fc63431bc2f53868/6a53107738207c23b62d38b0b1862b1e is the entry for παλτό.

Click on the image exercise.

In the right-hand side, scroll down past all the images.

There is a section "ANSWERS" (plural!).

That contained just το παλτό. I've just added το πανωφόρι. (Without a blue star.)

As I understand it, that should make both acceptable as answers to the image exercise with prompt "the coat".

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

@mizinamo I never knew that! Thank you very much for telling me.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

One more - not an article issue, but a synonym issue. το ρόδο marked as incorrect for 'the rose'. General strengthening on web.

May 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Added as an alternative to both trees.

May 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Thanks mizinamo.

May 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

@JacobPast177 I'm sorry this has not been resolved. You're screenshots are an ideal method and I'll try to get as many as I can to pass on to Duo in the hope that this can be resolved. Thank you very much.

March 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JacobPast177

No need to be sorry, I completely agree with spdl79 that it's just a minor issue*—my post above was just about adding whatever information I had on this subject. The way I deal with this problem recently is to always write the Greek answer with the article, and I think it has been working out alright.

In my post above I had asked where and how to report this issue, but I removed this question yesterday evening since I realized that mizinamo had already given good advice on this subject. And if we can post them to you directly, Jaye, that sounds even better. As for the screenshots I linked to above: they were gathered over the course of a few months (I just added some dates to the images), so maybe some of these sentences have been resolved by now (by the mysterious workings of the DuoBot :-D ).

[* The only serious problem I have with Duo right now is that it stopped showing me "Another correct solution: ..." which is very frustrating (see a post on this topic from 2014).]

March 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
Mod
  • 378

Yes, please continue to send screen shots. I doubt that the matter has been resolved. The Strengthen skills issue has not been resolved nor any of the others emanating from Duo directly. Unlike the regular sentences where we can view all the accepted answers in the incubator, for these, we can only see them by doing the exercises and getting one of them to answer.

It's the proverbial needle in a haystack which is why your feedback continues to be needed. In the meantime, I'm doing the course from the beginning but have not as yet had any picture exercises.

The link you give at the end in the post from 2014 ](https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1582145).] cannot be accessed. It may have been deleted.

March 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JacobPast177

That's strange—both my link and your link work for me. Here is a screenshot I did just now: (https://imgur.com/ngIaHsU).

March 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

There doesn't seem to be an obvious place to look up reports on image exercises, so reports on those might as well be disappearing into the void.

At least, I've never seen any reports for an image exercise though I'm sure some have been submitted.

I'd recommend posting into the forum if you have a problem with an image exercise (ideal would be if you could identify the skill and the lesson number within the skill).

Another possibility might be to post a free-write report on a sentence in the same lesson, though reporting something unrelated to the sentence is not really ideal.

Please do keep reporting mistakes, but the "report" function on the image exercise itself is not the best place to do so I'm afraid.

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Thanks mizinamo, will do!

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jaye16
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  • 378

Yes, I was going to say something similar, these are in the category of Strengthen skill, multiple choice, test out etc all sections that are administrated by Duo not by the contributors and we have reported ...often... but so far haven't seen much change. And other teams have similar issues. Maybe, we hope, that with this major overhaul Duo is doing these things will be corrected.

But keep on reporting please.

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Just don't do so through the Report button on the image exercises :)

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

το κτήριο is marked as an incorrect answer for 'the building'. General strengthening on web.

June 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

'μπαρ' is currently marked as an incorrect translation of 'bar', general strengthening on web.

June 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Dimitra956826

Both are now added! ^.^

June 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Cheers Dimitra!

June 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Dimitra956826

For some reason, I've never seen a report referring to picture exercises, ever. I'm not really sure if these ones get submitted either (although they probably do, but are so few that I didn't happent to notice any.) We'll keep an eye on it. ^.^

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

I don't see a picture exercise with the prompt "team".

In each tree, there is one picture exercise with "the group" (in the Sports section) and one picture exercise with "the team" (in the Abstract Objects section).

In both cases, the prompt includes the definite article, and the expected Greek is η ομάδα.

(Except for one of those four where ομάδα has been added as an alternative, presumably by jaye, who was the last to edit that one.)

That seems reasonable to me -- if the prompt says "the", then the answer should include "the".

If you can find the picture exercise that has a prompt of just "team", can you say which skill this was on? And was it on the website or a mobile app?

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Sorry, I guess I should have screenshotted. It was on a general strengthening exercise, on web. I was asked to translate "team" (no article) and "ομάδα" (without article) was marked as incorrect.

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Did it say what it expected as a correction?

Picture exercises are easiest to find if we know the word that's being practised -- e.g. whether it was ομάδα or possibly some other word.

On the other hand, I hope it's not one of those zombies that seem to rear their heads during general strengthening....

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Yes, I "missed a word", and it should have been "η ομάδα". The prompt was definitely "team", and I had the three pictures to go with it.

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Dimitra956826

I think that the μοτοσυκλέτα/μοτοσικλέτα issue is dealt with now. ^.^

May 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Thank you! Mizinamo just corrected it. (I think it's getting a bit hard to keep track of things as the thread is getting extremely cluttered!)

May 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/troll1995

I think that there is no inconsistency in these exercises, according to what I see in the incubator. If you are given "the love" then you are required to write η αγάπη. If you are given "Mirror" then you are required not to inculde the article. Where you given "love" and η αγάπη was required as an answer?

February 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Yes, that's right. The question was to provide 'love' (without 'the') and I entered αγάπη, and this was marked incorrectly and I was told that an article (η) should have been used.

There are quite a few words like this. Generally, the questions which are "provide a translation of this word: the [something]" require an article to be used in the Greek and this is fine. But the versions without the "the" in the English are very inconsistent - sometimes they require an article to be used, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they also seem to accept both the articled and unarticled version as correct.

It's not a major issue, just more of a minor annoyance.

February 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/troll1995

Ok, we'll see to it. In the incubator it seems that "the love" is given and not just "love"... Thanks for pointing it out! ;)

February 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/spdl79
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  • 932

Many thanks Troll, I'll post here any further examples I come across which are like that.

February 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
Mod

    I saw a lot when I was going through the lessons and reported (some of?) them. It was inconsistent throughout as Sean says, but I haven't gone back to the tree at all since :D and can't remember the ones with the article mismatches.

    February 28, 2017
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