Unconventional Use of the Words "Here" and "There"
Let me preface this by saying that I'm a native English speaker. Today I was at the store buying a shirt and a lady complimented me on it. I said "Thank you, I'm going to wear it to work on Monday here." The lady interpreted it to mean "here" at the store and asked if I worked at the store. It confused me because I meant "coming up here on Monday." I wasn't using in the sense of a physical place but rather as a particle (I think).
My girlfriend mentioned to me that I use the words "here" and "there" like that a lot and that it was completely useless to do and that I should stop. I know that in this context, the words have a function in English and I use them all the time. I am trying to figure out what the function of these words are when we use them like this. Can anybody offer any insight? My theory is that it's used to de-intensify the sentence. It may also be a regional thing. I'll leave some example sentences below to give a better idea.
"He's going to get his finances straightened out here"
"She's starting to get a little hungry there."
"The new update is coming up here on Wednesday."
I have never heard them the way you use them. Maybe it's because I'm from New York. With the way you used them, I would also think you work at that store, and that the update is coming to your house/place you work, or wherever you said that. The finances one would be interpreted like he's going to where you are, aka "here", and straighten them out there. I hope that made sense, but yeah, they were used incorrectly...completely (from my point of view, as a New Yorker, at least). :(
PS. The only sentence I can think of that I would use it without meaning a location is "There there" when consoling a child
That would drive me insane. haha I've never heard of any English speaker using them in that manner. (I'm American.) If you're seeing it frequently with others, it must be regional. I've lived around the US and never encountered it though.
I was thinking vaguely about this, actually, the other day--phrases like, "I'm going to go to the store here in a little while." I wouldn't use your first sentence (about the shirt) like that, probably, but I might say the others. (The difference, I think, is that "on Monday here" sounds odd to me--for me "here" should go in front, like in the last sentence, "here on Wednesday".)
Here in a bit I'm going to have lunch.
You're getting a little mean, there, you'd better watch it.
FWIW, I'm also a native English speaker, in rural Oregon.
Also in Oregon, and yeah I'm used to "here" coming before, not after, in the same ways you've mentioned.
I would have thought the OP meant at the store as well.
I wonder if it's French influence. French has a lot of words (voilà, voici, ici, -là ,là) that refer to a place, but are often used differently. For example 'ce jour-là' would literally be 'this/that day-there' but it just means 'this/that day'. The fact that similar structure is used in the South would support this idea.
I understand what you meant as I've heard my grandma and others say similar stuff like: "I'll do it this here Monday" or maybe even exactly like your example, but I think the way you use/place it can definitely cause confusion. I was even confused myself until I reread it.
"This here Monday" means the upcoming Monday as opposed to "next Monday" or "Monday week" or however it is said in whatever dialect. That one actually has a very specific meaning in Southern English.
I am guessing it would be whatever Monday was reference by a previous comment, based on my experience with it "that there". Though, I've never heard it referenced to days of the week. Though, I am familiar with "that there" Like "that there cat bit me last week."
It is interesting to me that things like "y'all", "folks", "this here", and "that there" are common in the south but also used here in Oregon.
I was born in California, moved the Arizona, then Nevada. My stepdad's a southern guy; he doesn't use phrases like these often, though. I've always understood them, even used them a few times, myself. I guess the usage varies, not so much within something so big as a state, but rather in a neighborhood, or among a family. Siblings in my school, I've noticed, have a common way of speech, and each family's uses of pronunciation and idioms and such are unique within themselves. Your understanding of others' speech just depends on what you were raised around.
My part of the state, at least, was heavily settled by people from Oklahoma, Missouri, etc., and if you listen, it's really noticeable in a lot of the colloquial usage.
So essentially your sentences mean the same thing with and without the here/there. They are grammatically unnecessary, not necessarily a reason to stop using them.
And they provide emphasis.
For fun (as in because I'm weird this way) I looked up Merriam-Webster's take on this. I think the information under there as an adjective might apply
I just learned that "there" can be an adjective. Whoa. Thanks! :)
Edit: I had already used it that way. But, hadn't become conscious of it until your post.
How would you describe the difference in meaning between “I’m going to wear it to work on Monday” and “I’m going to wear it to work on Monday here” when this use of “here” doesn’t refer to a place (i.e. not as an adverb, but rather as a particle), and without using the word “here” in your description of the difference in meaning? (Your usage example of “coming up here on Monday” is also unclear to me.) Since you’ve described this use of “here” as a deïntensifier, in what way does the “here”-less sentence exhibit intensification?
I think you're right about the de-intensification function.
However, I also think that in the usage you describe, the words "here" and "there" do maintain a literal meaning that fits with their usual meaning or is only a slight extension.
Both "here" and "there" can refer to place, time, or both place and time, and I think that in the usage you're describing,
- "here" means that that the decision or state of affairs being referred to is with the speaker, or with a group that includes the speaker, at this particular time, and
- "there" is essentially the same except that it refers to some other person or group, and doesn't include the speaker, so the state of affairs doesn't apply to the speaker (at least directly), though it still might be relatively immediate time-wise, or it's not immediate time-wise, but may still apply to the speaker.
And the lady at the store can of course be forgiven for her interpretation, given that the particular place you both found yourself in at the time was the store. ;-)
And the slightly different but still related "this here Monday" mentioned by others is of course "this Monday (relatively) immediately upon us", etc.
"I know that in this context, the words have a function in English and I use them all the time."
I disagree with your assessment. I see no reason to use those words in the contexts you gave in the last two examples. The first could make sense if it was an accountant speaking of a client coming to the accountant's office.
You must be a Southerner. A sentence like "I'm going to do this here," sounds perfectly natural if I hearken back to the normal manner of speaking in my hometown. Here has nothing to do with place. At best it is an intensifier or at worst a meaningless filler word. But as I learned in a Spanish linguistics class, "El uso es la norma". Your sentences sound perfectly normal in Southern English.
I have heard people use "there/here" unnecessarily, though not like the examples given. I think it is just meant to make the sentence more casual. I say things like "We should have lunch here in a bit" when talking to friends and family.
It's kind of being used the same way people use the superfluous "at" when speaking casually. Saying "where are you at?" instead of just "where are you?"