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  5. "You are eating black grapes."

"You are eating black grapes."

Translation:Tu manges du raisin noir.

February 25, 2013

38 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesdthomas2290

Why isn't this plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

In French, we use the collective "du raisin" which refers to the nature of the fruit, not to its actual physical appearance. Here, we are dealing with "an undefined quantity of" raisin. It works like the English "fruit" which is collective, while in French, it is not.

When the French refer to the grapes, they say, for ex: "vous mangez des grappes de raisin"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loreleion

There are some contexts where the plural is used, from what I can see at https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/raisin , but I can't understand it well enough to know when.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mitaine56

james- je mange des raisins noirs was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbierwirth

Thank you, Sitesurf, but it would be nice if the corrected answer said that. Instead, it told me that I used the plural and that was wrong, even though the English sentence is plural. More detail is needed there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

What you mention is correct "you are eating grapes" (plural) = "tu manges du raisin " (singular)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aboyer02

I just recently listen to a youtube video by Luis. He stated that at this point, Duolingo is able to give the reason a wrong answer is given about 15% of the time. The video was about a year old. I notice if I make too many mistakes, it may be able to correct me on one of my mistakes, but not multiple mistakes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slmUSA

Merci, aboyer02. Vous avez plus d'info pour nous ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aboyer02

I don't have more information, although I thank northernguy for his explanation of how computer based systems work. I am impressed with the model of duolingo, which is "kill two birds with one stone". Lots of people like or need to learn a second language. Lots of information is out there on the web in only one language. How can that information be translated into more languages? By people learning languages and practicing their skills of understanding on translating articles. And it's something at this point in time computers are mediocre at doing. But millions of humans, working together are quite good at it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

That is the way a computer based system works. If you use a singular article with a plural noun, very often there is no possible way for the computer to know which one was correct because it depends on what you were trying to say. If you make a typo that changes the word into another legitimate word that conflicts with something else in the sentence, it is impossible for the computer to know that you entered a typo and that is what the problem is. It may identify your typo as the problem or it may present the other word as the issue. But it does identify something, marks you incorrect and expects the student to go to comments pages to find out what is going on if he is confused.

It looks through the text, finds something that is inconsistent, identifies it to the user and stops.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adaobi

why 'des' and not 'les'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

because "du raisin noir" (singular - partitive = "some) is "black grapes" (plural) and "le raisin noir" (singular - definite) is "the black grapes"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FonmaEssie

Oui, c'est comme ça


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amcdonough88

Why is this not "Tu manges des raisins noirs?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robertheathfield

I agree. I think you should be able to say raisins noirs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jags02

I said "Vous mangez des raisins noirs." and it said I was correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

It is indeed a good alternative even if generally either we frequently use the collective "du raisin" or the unit "une grappe de raisin". You may report it if you have a chance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mitaine56

sitesurf- no need to report it, it was my answer.< and it was accepted. We often say that in Quebec, je mange des raisins.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/12alejandra

What's the difference between du and de? because i put 'tu manges de raisin noir' and it was wrong. Isn't the same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lemmingofdestiny

Generally, "de" means "of", while "du" means "of the" or "some", being a contraction of "de le", which is never used. However, when it is negative, or there is an adjective in front of the noun, "de" is used instead of "du", e.g. "pas de raisin" "de bon raisin noir." Perhaps this is the cause of your confusion?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fyggs

Is it me, or is this food one harder to get five bars on than all of the previous lessons, and the two following?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertoCW

Aux Etats Unies, we only have red, white and blue grapes, no black ones T.M.K. Malheureusement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slmUSA

Most American varieties have "slip skins," or skins that slip easily off the berries, while those from Europe often have skins that are securely fastened to the fruit. Colorwise, grapes fall into either the "white" or "black" category. "White" grapes actually range in color from pale yellow-green to light green, while "black" grapes range from light red to an extremely deep purple. We'll call them by their more common names, green and red. "Black" grapes aren't necessarily black. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/St.Brieux

"Le raisin et le vin" was translated in another question as, "Grapes and wine". On this question I hesitated about putting" "du", because of that last question. I still don't have an understanding of the "du" "le" thing. I've found some of the "explanations" on discussions quite confusing and contradictory. Any help from a native speaker would be greatly appreciated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mattcolor

Do the French refer to grapes of a purplish color as "le rasin noir," or are they just calling them black because we haven't learned many colors yet?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Raisin blanc and raisin noir are the way the French call the two varieties of grapes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chris_nairn

Okay, so, when the plural noun is a collective noun the adjective stays singular, correct? That's the way it is in this sentence. So, if I find plural adjectives on collective nouns later I will be très triste.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chris_nairn

To say, "you are eating unripened grapes is this how it should look?" Vous mangez du raisin vert.

Thanks in advance for replies. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Yes, "vert" can indeed mean "unripened".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chris_nairn

Merci beaucoup! I was looking to make sure that I could leave it "singular" after the "du" or if white and red wine were idiomatic. I actually kind of naturally understand it due to an explanation above that you gave somebody; I simply wanted extra clarity. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SourireCache

I like how it accepts "Vous mangez des raisins noirs" as well c:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexyesilence

Why do we use de and du?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"du, de la or de l' " express the meaning of "some" in front of a singular, uncountable noun.

I eat (some) bread = je mange du pain = an undefined quantity of a mass thing

  • "du" is used in front of masculine singular nouns starting with a consonant
  • "de la" is used in front of feminine singular nouns starting with a consonant
  • "de l' " is used in front of singular nouns starting with a vowel or a non aspirate H

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1032550826

clearly you are further in the language than I am


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NestorCald1

Eating "black grapes" (plural) is no the same as "eating a black grape" (singular).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alliamiswynn

Does duolingo not allow for inversion?

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