https://www.duolingo.com/HerrArbo

"adre"

"Adre" is translated in the course as "to home". I've never heard of "home" being a verb. Does it mean "to go home" (as in mynd adre) or can it also be used in other ways?

March 14, 2017

11 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc

adre means 'homewards', as in the phrases 'going home' and 'coming home' - with a sense of movement towards home. There are three similar words in Welsh, and it is important to distinguish between them.

  • Dyma ein cartref newydd - 'This is our new home' - cartref as a noun meaning 'a home', plural cartrefi.
  • Dw i'n aros gartref. - 'I'm staying at home.' - a simple adverb using the soft mutation of cartref
  • Dw i'n mynd adre. - I am going home. (= 'homewards', 'towards home'.

(In some dialects adre is sometimes used for 'at home' as well as 'homewards/to home')

[Additional info for the terminally curious... adre comes from the older phrase tua thref meaning 'towards home' from a time when tref meant 'home/homestead' rather than its modern meaning of 'a town'. Pentref was used for the main one of several trefi situated close together, or perhaps where one grew to include several households, and came to mean 'a village', the meaning which remains in the modern language. Tua thref, pronounced /sha thre/, is still sometimes heard in parts of south-east Wales in the spoken language for adre, as in Wi'n mynd sha thre nawr (I'm going home now).]

March 14, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

(In some dialects adre is sometimes used for 'at home' as well as 'homewards/to home')

Perhaps it should be pointed out that though the difference between gartref "at home" and adref "home(wards) is maintained in standard language, colloquially people will often use just one for both meanings - usually some form of adref (adre, adra) in the north and some form of gartref (ga(r)tre, gytre, gitre) in the south, broadly speaking. Just in case anyone gets confused when they hear Wna i aros adra or Fi'n mynd gitre!

March 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Do'n i ddim yn gwybod hwnna, diolch am esbonio!

March 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/IanGordon12

Interesting! I've been speaking English for almost fifty-five years (born and lived my entire life in the South of England), and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've encountered the phrase "to home" outside Duolingo. That said, I understood immediately the distinction that was meant by the (to me) awkward phrase.

March 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Curtis267492

I found this post because I was looking for a definitive answer on something related to this - or at least, related in my head.

Basically, I'm just not sure how common it is to drop the F in Adref and Cartref and such, and whether or not it's possible to drop it elsewhere in Welsh. Is it a rule that F endings are optional extras in general, or is it exclusive to the words relating to 'Home' due to some quirk in their history?

Diolch!

March 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

It's a common feature of colloquial Welsh to drop a final f in polysyllabic words. This is then reflected in informal spellings, although not in more formal writing. So in addition to the examples you mentioned, you may see and will definitely hear examples such as gartre "at home", diwetha "last", cynta "first", nesa "next", bydda "I'll be", gwela "I'll see" and so on all with the f dropped.

In north Wales, they sometimes even drop the final f in some monosyllabic words like ha "summer" and co "memory", which would be the full forms haf and cof in the south.

March 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Curtis267492

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Now that you mention it I have noticed the shortening of Haf and Adref - to Ha and Adre/Adra, as you say - in Welsh-language songs aswell - Gwyneth Glyn comes to mind.

I suppose as well as being colloquial, there's also some artistic licence allowed too? To fit a rhyming scheme, or make the words sound less homogenous perhaps?

Beth bynnag, diolch yn fawr, fy nghyd-Gymro!

P.S. Sorry if the above Welsh is incorrect, I'm still reliant on Google Translate at the moment and we all know how that can be sometimes.

March 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

The Welsh is perfect (which is quite surprising for Google Translate)!

You're right about the artistic licence. Welsh hymns, which employ mostly formal features of the language, will sometimes drop a final f to help with the poetry.

Some examples from Anne Griffiths:

yn bennaf "chiefly" becomes yn benna' in order to rhyme with para "continue"

A'r rhai o'm tŷ fy hun yn benna'

Yn blaenori uffernol gad;

Trwy gymorth gras yr wyf am bara

I ryfela hyd at waed.

"And those of my own house chiefly

Lead/excel in the hellish battle;

But with the aid of grace I shall continue

To fight on even unto blood"

Or in the following where gerddaf "I shall walk" is reduced to gerdda' so it can be joined to the following yn to give only two syllables and so fit the rhythm.

Mi gerdda'n ara' ddyddiau f'oes

Dan gysgod haeddiant gwaed y groes,

"I shall walk slowly/softly all the days of my life

Under the shadow of the merit of the blood of the cross,"

Sorry, I'm not a poet or a translator, but you get the picture!

March 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Curtis267492

No no, you shouldn't apologise. This has been very helpful, and you're very knowledgable.

Diolch!

P.S. I know, I'm a little surprised with Google Translate too. It's a bit like watching Bambi finally learn how to walk.

March 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

It’s usually OK for figuring out the meaning of some Welsh text but the English to Welsh side isn’t that great. It can’t distinguish different levels of formality for a start. Nevertheless, a useful tool sometimes.

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/rmcode
Mod
  • 1539

Yes, it is used in the context of moving towards home, as you suggest 'mynd adre' = to go home and in other tenses:- es i adre = I went home.

March 14, 2017
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