"Los zapatos ya están viejos."

Translation:The shoes are old already.

February 26, 2013

85 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bisade

Why is it 'ya están' rather than 'están ya' how do i decide how to order certain words in spanish?

September 6, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcgwn

Word order confusing. I would have thought están would have gone before ya. Can someone explain?

May 2, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFJuan

Here is a good article on the placement of adverbs in Spanish: http://spanish.about.com/cs/grammar/qt/adverbplaceqt.htm.

Generally, adverbs stay close to what they modify.

If the adverb modifies a verb, it generally comes after the verb: él trabaja lento (he works slowly) OR salgo ya (I'm leaving now). However adverbs come before the verb if they negate (no, nunca, jamás, etc) or to add emphasis: ¡qué lentos pasan los días! (the days go so slowly!). In this exercise, already seems to be emphatic (these shoes are old already), so ya is placed before the verb están.

December 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huysan

I think in Spanish, the adverb comes before the verb.

October 19, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dadatic

No, the adverb may come after the verb too. All these sentences sound natural to me:

“Los zapatos ya están viejos.”

“Los zapatos están ya viejos.”

“Los zapatos están viejos ya.”

The following sounds a little unnatural in spoken language, but wouldn’t look strange in a literary work:

“Ya los zapatos están viejos.”

December 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tomk123

"The shoes are old now" and "The shoes are old already" don't mean the same thing. The first just states a fact. The second indicates something unexpected, they shouldn't be worn out yet.

September 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kimplusplus

I put "The shoes already are old" How is this wrong?

February 26, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rspreng

That is awkward word order in English, I think. I would go with "are already old," though.

February 26, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BreannaRei

I think I wrote the same thing, but got it correct. Maybe it was a glitch.

November 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reinhild

"The shoes are already old" is wrong also,and I lost another heart

March 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shraeye

This is accepted now.

May 14, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anni...b

why couldn't it be "the shoes are now old"?

May 1, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

accepted

August 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tango100

I don't understand "ya." What it means, when it's used.

July 25, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFJuan

I found this very helpful: http://nextlingo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/yatodavia.jpg

Essentially, ya indicates change, while todavía/aún indicate continuity. In this exercise, los zapatos ya están viejos, ya indicates the status of the shoes have changed. They didn't look old, but now they do. So, ya can translate to now or already. In the sentence, los zapatos ya no están nuevos, ya again indicates the status has changed. They looked new but now they don't. So, ya can translate to anymore or now.

¿Ya estás alli? Are you there yet? Did your status change from not being there to being there?

¿Todavía/aún estás allí? Are you still there? You were there and has your status remained the same?

October 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KoreLiz

I think we all need help on building (formation) sentences....like where we would put ya (middle, end, or where)...people need to stick to the subject at hand...quit rumbling about your personal business. ..we trying to learn Spanish people. ..let's get busy...

August 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Austin295239

How're you're feeling and where you are, use the verb estar!

June 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanBraddock

In the audio, ya sounds like 'dja' - is that right?

March 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MystyrNile

Yes. In Spain, the sound shoul be farther forward in the mouth than the English J, but the sound is the same in some regions, eg Mexico.

March 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshaan96

How to use 'ya' Where to place it, starting or ending or somewhere else?!

March 25, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerbrich0

I am still confused about 'Ya'. Sometimes it is in the beginning of the sentence and now not. Can you also say: "Ya, los zapatos estan viejos'? Or is that just wrong?

September 21, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shadowlurker_j

What's the reasoning for the position of ya? Does it always go before the verb?

January 29, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AwesomeHCForde

My teacher taught me something about estar. How you feel and where you are: this is when you use estar

April 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SirSwick

Those shoes are already old should also be accepted.

May 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyashiri

I don't think it should. DuoLingo teaches us to be very clear about what we're saying, and there are specific words for 'those' in Spanish, and they aren't in the sentence in this case. It really helped me understand exactly what I was reading/saying in Spanish, even more than when I took the classes in high school. I hope it does the same for you!

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrixieSout

Why not the shoes are already old means the same in English

November 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amir.pro

I think spanish is a very challenging language...

May 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willow_Louise1

If the adverb modifies a verb, it generally comes after the verb: él trabaja lento (he works slowly) OR salgo ya (I'm leaving now). However adverbs come before the verb if they negate (no, nunca, jamás, etc) or to add emphasis: ¡qué lentos pasan los días! (the days go so slowly!). In this exercise, already seems to be emphatic (these shoes are old already), so ya is placed before the verb están.

May 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willow_Louise1

my profesor gave me a tip about estar, when I'm not sure. estar + adjective : if I can change estar by for exemple, : estar cansado/ by I feel tired, it's estar, also : estoy enfadado/I'm angry, by I feel angry, it's estar.sorry I don't have enough vocabulary in English to explain that rule

May 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barrynelson

the shoes by now are old. wrong, why?

April 13, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyashiri

The "by now" sounds like a "good probability" that they're old now (to me). The sentence in the example sounds more certain/straightforward to me. "They are old already, period"

August 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mishami

why estar and not ser? the shoes being old is not temporary and Duolingo says that ser is what something is?

June 20, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akkic

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/100040/ser-vs.-estar#.U51WY5SSzp5

this might help.

according to the article above, we use estar instead of ser because 'old' here is the condition of the shoes. intuitively, 'old' is not a permanent state of the shoes. theymust have been new at some point in time and would've grown old with usage. hence, usage of estar instead of ser( which is used for permanent characteristics) is justified

June 15, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFJuan

I realize this response is from quite a while ago, but I believe the answer above is not correct. Old/new are durable (slowly changing) characteristics rather than temporary conditions. If I want to say my car is old, I use ser (and not estar): mi coche es viejo. However, how old something looks is a temporary condition and not a characteristic. So, if I want to say my car looks old or my car is old looking, I would use estar: mi coche está viejo. You can think of looking old as looks old at this moment. So, here the meaning of Los zapatos ya están viejos is that shoes already appear old. In fact, it is implying that the shoes look old even though they are not old.

A lot of adjectives in Spanish change meaning like this when you use them with ser or estar. With ser the adjective describes a durable characteristic, while with estar the same adjective describes a temporary condition. As another example, estoy listo means I am ready (a temporary condition) while soy listo means I am smart (a durable characteristic).

Here is a very good list of adjectives that change meaning is this way: http://faculty.spokanefalls.edu/InetShare/AutoWebs/bonnieb/Span%20221-222-223/ser-estar%20adjectives.pdf

One more word of caution on this. Even adjectives that are not on this list can call for a switch of estar/ser depending on context. For example, if you are commenting on someone standing nearby you could say Ella es bonita. Here bonita is a durable characteristic of that person: she is beautiful. But if you were looking at a photo of her, you would comment ella está bonita because now you are commenting on the temporary condition of her appearance at the time the photo was taken: she looks beautiful in this photo.

April 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KathleenEd9

Thank you. I understand why they change now.

July 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dansmisterdans

Thank you, Here are some more examples of how " estar viejo" can be used
http://context.reverso.net/translation/spanish-english/est%C3%A1+viejo

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeadowlarkJ

If the shoes only looked old, you would say, "Los zapatos parecen viejos." I have been told not to think in terms of temporary (for estar) or permanent (for ser), but rather to consider the condition of the person or thing (for estar) or the essential characteristics of the person or thing (for ser).

That's why estar is used to say that someone or something is dead. Being alive or dead is a considered a condition, even though death is permanent.

May 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Apparently, if SFJuan is correct, you could also say los zapatos están viejos. I assume there's some nuance in using estar rather than parecer which I don't understand, so I'd be more inclined to use parecer because at least I know what they means - the shoes seem or appear old.

More importantly, for now, estar viejo = "to be old", not "to seem old", because you just know that Duo would mark me wrong if I used "to seem", even though that's the whole point of this exercise.

May 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dadatic

“Los zapatos son viejos” = “The shoes are old”

“Los zapatos parecen viejos” = “The shoes look old” (for whatever reason, maybe just some dust or some optical effect)

“Los zapatos están viejos” = “The shoes look old” (because of wear and tear)

May 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeavySpanvich

Thank you! You are the first person I understood on this!

June 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Schatzie14

Thank you I hand copied estar via ser most important spanish lesson should be No one lession!!!!!!!!

July 12, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miguel629564

That helped me a lot!

November 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Thank you. Very helpful. Have a lingot.

I was thinking that the acronym PLACE should change "Condition" to "Critique: Assessment or opinion about Condition (and just about anything else)".

Any thoughts on that?

May 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mitaine56

my profesor gave me a tip about estar, when I'm not sure. estar + adjective : if I can change estar by for exemple, : estar cansado/ by I feel tired, it's estar, also : estoy enfadado/I'm angry, by I feel angry, it's estar.sorry I don't have enough vocabulary in English to explain that rule

December 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanzo

thanks mitain56. that's pretty handy. So if you can replace ser/estar by "I feel", and it sounds right, then estar is the appropriate verb (because it shows that it is a temporary condition in which case estar is the more appropriate)?

January 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mitaine56

for feelings, always ESTAR. Before a noun, or an article, it's ser

January 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monicahinty

So maybe the shoes aren't old, but duolingo FEELS that they are outdated and out of style.

April 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BonaFidee

That's not 100% true but it's a good starting point.

January 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/droma

the shoes were new at one time and now they are old. The condition of the shoes is (has) changed. Thus the usage is the verb "estar."

July 29, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcgwn

Old would fall under the category of Condition which makes estar correct. Check out the acronyms DOCTOR & PLACE for ser and estar.

June 20, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Schnookums1

Estar is for "how" and "where". Estar is used to denote the condition of something - for example "Los zapatos está viejo" tells the condition of the shoes, so estar is used instead of ser. Estar is also used for location - for example "Los zapatos está aqui" = "The shoes are here".

Ser is used for what, when, and who. The who, I'm not entirely sure of, because I too am learning Spanish. But I am certain of the what and when.

February 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vega.marle

In Spanish the verb 'to be' means ser y estar, as in "yo soy joven; el carro es nuevo"

July 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poppyizzie1

what is this already business? no offence but is this not an American term?

March 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skepticalways

No offence taken; but, how would you express this example, in context. "I do not want to get my new sneakers dirty, so I will use these other shoes for yard work, because they are already old." Surely there are other examples for already, like "I don't want to read that newspaper; it is already old." Or, a mom saying, "I already told you to clean your room three times!"

August 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexandradancing

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure you would use "ya" in all three of your examples. They would be: "No quiero ensuciar mis zapatos nuevos, entonces voy a usar estos otros para trabajar en el jardin porque ya estan viejos," "No quiero leer estas noticias, ya están viejos," and "Ya te dije que limpies su cuarto tres veces!"

May 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MystyrNile

What do they say in England?

March 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poppyizzie1

it depends on where you put already in the sentence. "The shoes are old already" that does not make sense to me at all. It is like saying "These shoes are quickly old". With reference to it being an american term, i have noticed they say already at the end of a lot of sentences that have nothing to do with time. Sorry to ramble on.

March 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

I think "these shoes are already old" sounds much more natural to my American English ears.
Having already at the end of a sentence sounds off (although I would understand the meaning)

March 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itsmesd

The use of 'already' at the end of a sentence is often a colloquialism that adds some kind of emphasis to the sentence - sometimes it implies a dismissive or somewhat insulting attitude to the person it is being said to. For example, someone might say "Get a grip, already." to someone who is being unreasonable or emotional in a dramatic way, meaning 'calm down please' but not in such polite words.

March 22, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RachelProut

"The shoes now are old"???? But not "Now the shoes are old"? Sorry Duolingo, I don't speak Spanglish.

April 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohitSoni3

Is it wrong if you wrote son rather than estan

July 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thepict

I put "The shoes are so old" How is this wrong?

April 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ms_Dawson

Ya means now.

April 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/baterme

what different between "estan" and "son" ?

May 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyashiri

See akkic's discussion on this page above: they have a link to http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/100040/ser-vs.-estar#.U51WY5SSzp5 that will hopefully clear it all up for you!

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dustyshelves

Why does "ya" go before estar in this sentence, yet in another question, "Estamos ya en Marzo" ("We are already in March"), it goes after estar?

September 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mjcm94

if I was to structure the sentence as "Los zapatos estan ya Viejo" (with the ya position changed), would that mean exactly the same thing, something else or would it just be classed as wrong? and if wrong why? many thanks

January 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margulya

Why we can't say: The shoes are old yet?

February 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/waiyu2014

WHAT IS THE DIFFRENCE IN ESTAN V.S. SON

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kakarot007

What is already, here ?

May 16, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0snat.

Why not 'the shoes are still old'?

June 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drmorts

Those shoes are already old

July 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeffCat6

old already: they age faster?

August 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DailyGrace

Is it correct that "ya" can also mean "no longer"? Wouldn't that be the opposite of "now"? "No longer" wouldn't make sense in this sentence, but surely opposite meanings could lead to confusion. Anyone have an explanation?

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katie7511

why is ya placed in the middle? I thought it would be los zapatos estan viejos ya

November 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RafiCourto

Is it the "ya" that makes it "...already old."???

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Engvald

The shoes are already old is a correct way to say this in English. It should be accepted, but it's not.

March 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gstence

Is this something a native speaker might say when referring to used/secondhand items?

April 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HedgeSparrow

Is 'ya' ever used by itself? For example as a short way of replying to a statement: A: These shoes are old. B: Already?

May 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathan111284

I wrote "Those shoes are already old" In English it would be very unusual to say "the shoes" as though referring to shoes in general. One would only say it about particular shoes, "those shoes" does this sound as strange in Spanish?

October 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Darkrai007

Why 'ya están' and not 'son están'?

October 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amir.pro

ya están = already are, are already son están = are are???

does the second sentence make sense to you?

both están and son are verbs, the first (están) is derived from "estar = to be", and the second (son) is derived from "ser = to be" and they cannot be used this way at the same time.

October 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kellingc

Does the position of ya make a difference? A previuos excersise, I had to go from English to Spanish, and put ya in front of viejos and was narjed correct and no suggestions. Here, they put it in front of están. Are both correct?

November 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kellingc

Marked, not the group of nonsencical letters. Jeezch

November 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willow_Louise1

That is awkward word order in English, I think. I would go with "are already old," though.

May 22, 2018
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