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  5. "Los zapatos ya están viejos."

"Los zapatos ya están viejos."

Translation:The shoes are old already.

February 26, 2013

85 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bisade

Why is it 'ya están' rather than 'están ya' how do i decide how to order certain words in spanish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcgwn

Word order confusing. I would have thought están would have gone before ya. Can someone explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFJuan

Here is a good article on the placement of adverbs in Spanish: http://spanish.about.com/cs/grammar/qt/adverbplaceqt.htm.

Generally, adverbs stay close to what they modify.

If the adverb modifies a verb, it generally comes after the verb: él trabaja lento (he works slowly) OR salgo ya (I'm leaving now). However adverbs come before the verb if they negate (no, nunca, jamás, etc) or to add emphasis: ¡qué lentos pasan los días! (the days go so slowly!). In this exercise, already seems to be emphatic (these shoes are old already), so ya is placed before the verb están.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huysan

I think in Spanish, the adverb comes before the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dadatic

No, the adverb may come after the verb too. All these sentences sound natural to me:

“Los zapatos ya están viejos.”

“Los zapatos están ya viejos.”

“Los zapatos están viejos ya.”

The following sounds a little unnatural in spoken language, but wouldn’t look strange in a literary work:

“Ya los zapatos están viejos.”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tomk123

"The shoes are old now" and "The shoes are old already" don't mean the same thing. The first just states a fact. The second indicates something unexpected, they shouldn't be worn out yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kimplusplus

I put "The shoes already are old" How is this wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rspreng

That is awkward word order in English, I think. I would go with "are already old," though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BreannaRei

I think I wrote the same thing, but got it correct. Maybe it was a glitch.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reinhild

"The shoes are already old" is wrong also,and I lost another heart


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shraeye

This is accepted now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anni...b

why couldn't it be "the shoes are now old"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tango100

I don't understand "ya." What it means, when it's used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFJuan

I found this very helpful: http://nextlingo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/yatodavia.jpg

Essentially, ya indicates change, while todavía/aún indicate continuity. In this exercise, los zapatos ya están viejos, ya indicates the status of the shoes have changed. They didn't look old, but now they do. So, ya can translate to now or already. In the sentence, los zapatos ya no están nuevos, ya again indicates the status has changed. They looked new but now they don't. So, ya can translate to anymore or now.

¿Ya estás alli? Are you there yet? Did your status change from not being there to being there?

¿Todavía/aún estás allí? Are you still there? You were there and has your status remained the same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KoreLiz

I think we all need help on building (formation) sentences....like where we would put ya (middle, end, or where)...people need to stick to the subject at hand...quit rumbling about your personal business. ..we trying to learn Spanish people. ..let's get busy...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Austin295239

How're you're feeling and where you are, use the verb estar!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanBraddock

In the audio, ya sounds like 'dja' - is that right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MystyrNile

Yes. In Spain, the sound shoul be farther forward in the mouth than the English J, but the sound is the same in some regions, eg Mexico.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshaan96

How to use 'ya' Where to place it, starting or ending or somewhere else?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerbrich0

I am still confused about 'Ya'. Sometimes it is in the beginning of the sentence and now not. Can you also say: "Ya, los zapatos estan viejos'? Or is that just wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shadowlurker_j

What's the reasoning for the position of ya? Does it always go before the verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AwesomeHCForde

My teacher taught me something about estar. How you feel and where you are: this is when you use estar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SirSwick

Those shoes are already old should also be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyashiri

I don't think it should. DuoLingo teaches us to be very clear about what we're saying, and there are specific words for 'those' in Spanish, and they aren't in the sentence in this case. It really helped me understand exactly what I was reading/saying in Spanish, even more than when I took the classes in high school. I hope it does the same for you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrixieSout

Why not the shoes are already old means the same in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amir.pro

I think spanish is a very challenging language...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willow_Louise1

If the adverb modifies a verb, it generally comes after the verb: él trabaja lento (he works slowly) OR salgo ya (I'm leaving now). However adverbs come before the verb if they negate (no, nunca, jamás, etc) or to add emphasis: ¡qué lentos pasan los días! (the days go so slowly!). In this exercise, already seems to be emphatic (these shoes are old already), so ya is placed before the verb están.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willow_Louise1

my profesor gave me a tip about estar, when I'm not sure. estar + adjective : if I can change estar by for exemple, : estar cansado/ by I feel tired, it's estar, also : estoy enfadado/I'm angry, by I feel angry, it's estar.sorry I don't have enough vocabulary in English to explain that rule


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barrynelson

the shoes by now are old. wrong, why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyashiri

The "by now" sounds like a "good probability" that they're old now (to me). The sentence in the example sounds more certain/straightforward to me. "They are old already, period"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mishami

why estar and not ser? the shoes being old is not temporary and Duolingo says that ser is what something is?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akkic

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/100040/ser-vs.-estar#.U51WY5SSzp5

this might help.

according to the article above, we use estar instead of ser because 'old' here is the condition of the shoes. intuitively, 'old' is not a permanent state of the shoes. theymust have been new at some point in time and would've grown old with usage. hence, usage of estar instead of ser( which is used for permanent characteristics) is justified


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFJuan

I realize this response is from quite a while ago, but I believe the answer above is not correct. Old/new are durable (slowly changing) characteristics rather than temporary conditions. If I want to say my car is old, I use ser (and not estar): mi coche es viejo. However, how old something looks is a temporary condition and not a characteristic. So, if I want to say my car looks old or my car is old looking, I would use estar: mi coche está viejo. You can think of looking old as looks old at this moment. So, here the meaning of Los zapatos ya están viejos is that shoes already appear old. In fact, it is implying that the shoes look old even though they are not old.

A lot of adjectives in Spanish change meaning like this when you use them with ser or estar. With ser the adjective describes a durable characteristic, while with estar the same adjective describes a temporary condition. As another example, estoy listo means I am ready (a temporary condition) while soy listo means I am smart (a durable characteristic).

Here is a very good list of adjectives that change meaning is this way: http://faculty.spokanefalls.edu/InetShare/AutoWebs/bonnieb/Span%20221-222-223/ser-estar%20adjectives.pdf

One more word of caution on this. Even adjectives that are not on this list can call for a switch of estar/ser depending on context. For example, if you are commenting on someone standing nearby you could say Ella es bonita. Here bonita is a durable characteristic of that person: she is beautiful. But if you were looking at a photo of her, you would comment ella está bonita because now you are commenting on the temporary condition of her appearance at the time the photo was taken: she looks beautiful in this photo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KathleenEd9

Thank you. I understand why they change now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dansmisterdans

Thank you, Here are some more examples of how " estar viejo" can be used
http://context.reverso.net/translation/spanish-english/est%C3%A1+viejo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeadowlarkJ

If the shoes only looked old, you would say, "Los zapatos parecen viejos." I have been told not to think in terms of temporary (for estar) or permanent (for ser), but rather to consider the condition of the person or thing (for estar) or the essential characteristics of the person or thing (for ser).

That's why estar is used to say that someone or something is dead. Being alive or dead is a considered a condition, even though death is permanent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Apparently, if SFJuan is correct, you could also say los zapatos están viejos. I assume there's some nuance in using estar rather than parecer which I don't understand, so I'd be more inclined to use parecer because at least I know what they means - the shoes seem or appear old.

More importantly, for now, estar viejo = "to be old", not "to seem old", because you just know that Duo would mark me wrong if I used "to seem", even though that's the whole point of this exercise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dadatic

“Los zapatos son viejos” = “The shoes are old”

“Los zapatos parecen viejos” = “The shoes look old” (for whatever reason, maybe just some dust or some optical effect)

“Los zapatos están viejos” = “The shoes look old” (because of wear and tear)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeavySpanvich

Thank you! You are the first person I understood on this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Schatzie14

Thank you I hand copied estar via ser most important spanish lesson should be No one lession!!!!!!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miguel629564

That helped me a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Thank you. Very helpful. Have a lingot.

I was thinking that the acronym PLACE should change "Condition" to "Critique: Assessment or opinion about Condition (and just about anything else)".

Any thoughts on that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mitaine56

my profesor gave me a tip about estar, when I'm not sure. estar + adjective : if I can change estar by for exemple, : estar cansado/ by I feel tired, it's estar, also : estoy enfadado/I'm angry, by I feel angry, it's estar.sorry I don't have enough vocabulary in English to explain that rule


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanzo

thanks mitain56. that's pretty handy. So if you can replace ser/estar by "I feel", and it sounds right, then estar is the appropriate verb (because it shows that it is a temporary condition in which case estar is the more appropriate)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mitaine56

for feelings, always ESTAR. Before a noun, or an article, it's ser


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monicahinty

So maybe the shoes aren't old, but duolingo FEELS that they are outdated and out of style.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BonaFidee

That's not 100% true but it's a good starting point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/droma

the shoes were new at one time and now they are old. The condition of the shoes is (has) changed. Thus the usage is the verb "estar."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcgwn

Old would fall under the category of Condition which makes estar correct. Check out the acronyms DOCTOR & PLACE for ser and estar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Schnookums1

Estar is for "how" and "where". Estar is used to denote the condition of something - for example "Los zapatos está viejo" tells the condition of the shoes, so estar is used instead of ser. Estar is also used for location - for example "Los zapatos está aqui" = "The shoes are here".

Ser is used for what, when, and who. The who, I'm not entirely sure of, because I too am learning Spanish. But I am certain of the what and when.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vega.marle

In Spanish the verb 'to be' means ser y estar, as in "yo soy joven; el carro es nuevo"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poppyizzie1

what is this already business? no offence but is this not an American term?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skepticalways

No offence taken; but, how would you express this example, in context. "I do not want to get my new sneakers dirty, so I will use these other shoes for yard work, because they are already old." Surely there are other examples for already, like "I don't want to read that newspaper; it is already old." Or, a mom saying, "I already told you to clean your room three times!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexandradancing

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure you would use "ya" in all three of your examples. They would be: "No quiero ensuciar mis zapatos nuevos, entonces voy a usar estos otros para trabajar en el jardin porque ya estan viejos," "No quiero leer estas noticias, ya están viejos," and "Ya te dije que limpies su cuarto tres veces!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MystyrNile

What do they say in England?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poppyizzie1

it depends on where you put already in the sentence. "The shoes are old already" that does not make sense to me at all. It is like saying "These shoes are quickly old". With reference to it being an american term, i have noticed they say already at the end of a lot of sentences that have nothing to do with time. Sorry to ramble on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazzie

I think "these shoes are already old" sounds much more natural to my American English ears.
Having already at the end of a sentence sounds off (although I would understand the meaning)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itsmesd

The use of 'already' at the end of a sentence is often a colloquialism that adds some kind of emphasis to the sentence - sometimes it implies a dismissive or somewhat insulting attitude to the person it is being said to. For example, someone might say "Get a grip, already." to someone who is being unreasonable or emotional in a dramatic way, meaning 'calm down please' but not in such polite words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RachelProut

"The shoes now are old"???? But not "Now the shoes are old"? Sorry Duolingo, I don't speak Spanglish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohitSoni3

Is it wrong if you wrote son rather than estan


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thepict

I put "The shoes are so old" How is this wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/baterme

what different between "estan" and "son" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyashiri

See akkic's discussion on this page above: they have a link to http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/100040/ser-vs.-estar#.U51WY5SSzp5 that will hopefully clear it all up for you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dustyshelves

Why does "ya" go before estar in this sentence, yet in another question, "Estamos ya en Marzo" ("We are already in March"), it goes after estar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mjcm94

if I was to structure the sentence as "Los zapatos estan ya Viejo" (with the ya position changed), would that mean exactly the same thing, something else or would it just be classed as wrong? and if wrong why? many thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margulya

Why we can't say: The shoes are old yet?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/waiyu2014

WHAT IS THE DIFFRENCE IN ESTAN V.S. SON


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kakarot007

What is already, here ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0snat.

Why not 'the shoes are still old'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drmorts

Those shoes are already old


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeffCat6

old already: they age faster?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DailyGrace

Is it correct that "ya" can also mean "no longer"? Wouldn't that be the opposite of "now"? "No longer" wouldn't make sense in this sentence, but surely opposite meanings could lead to confusion. Anyone have an explanation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katie7511

why is ya placed in the middle? I thought it would be los zapatos estan viejos ya


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RafiCourto

Is it the "ya" that makes it "...already old."???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Engvald

The shoes are already old is a correct way to say this in English. It should be accepted, but it's not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gstence

Is this something a native speaker might say when referring to used/secondhand items?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HedgeSparrow

Is 'ya' ever used by itself? For example as a short way of replying to a statement: A: These shoes are old. B: Already?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathan111284

I wrote "Those shoes are already old" In English it would be very unusual to say "the shoes" as though referring to shoes in general. One would only say it about particular shoes, "those shoes" does this sound as strange in Spanish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Darkrai007

Why 'ya están' and not 'son están'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amir.pro

ya están = already are, are already son están = are are???

does the second sentence make sense to you?

both están and son are verbs, the first (están) is derived from "estar = to be", and the second (son) is derived from "ser = to be" and they cannot be used this way at the same time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kellingc

Does the position of ya make a difference? A previuos excersise, I had to go from English to Spanish, and put ya in front of viejos and was narjed correct and no suggestions. Here, they put it in front of están. Are both correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kellingc

Marked, not the group of nonsencical letters. Jeezch


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willow_Louise1

That is awkward word order in English, I think. I would go with "are already old," though.

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