"Today is the eleventh."

Translation:Heddiw yw'r unfed ar ddeg.

April 2, 2017

21 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Would Mae heddiw yr unfed ar ddeg. be possible?

(It was rejected for me just now.)

April 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc

No, the form 'r for 'the' is needed after a vowel - see the notes for the section on 'The'.

Also, it would be usual to start this sentence with Heddiw...

April 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

Remember you can't usually have [bod + subject + predicate] if the predicate is definite. You have to use the emphatic construction.

Sara yw'r athrawes "Sara's the teacher"

Yr athrawes yw Sara "Sara's the teacher"

But never:

*Mae Sara'n yr athrawes

So:

Heddiw yw'r unfed ar ddeg "Todays's the eleventh"

Yr unfed ar ddeg yw heddiw "Today's the eleventh"

*Mae heddiw'n yr unfed ar ddeg

April 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Thank you! I wasn't aware of that rule about bod + definite predicate.

April 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

That's why you learn either

Siân dw i "I'm Siân"

or

Fi yw Siân "I'm Siân"

but never

*Dw i'n Siân

That last one would be "I'm a Siân" in English.

It's also why when you use the superlative degree of adjectives (which are by nature definite), you have to use the emphatic construction one way or another.

Y tala yw e "He's the tallest"

or

Fe yw'r tala "He's the tallest"

But never

*Mae e'n y tala

April 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

I see you have an asterisk next to your last answer but no translation "Mae heddiw'n yr unfed ar ddeg" ... The layout looks like you're saying that's an acceptable phrasing, but I sense it isn't.

October 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc

A common convention is to put an asterisk before incorrect examples.

October 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

oh, I've not encountered that. Normally an asterisk refers to a note at the bottom?

October 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae

When it comes after a word or phrase, yes, but it has many other uses.

As @ibisc says, when discussing languages you can put it before something to show that it's ungrammatical. Another common usage you might see here is to show a reconstructed word.

October 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Yr unfed ar ddeg ydy heddiw. was rejected for me just now -- I believe that's equivalent to Yr unfed ar ddeg yw heddiw, so I imagine it's a correct answer to "What date is it today? -- Today's the ELEVENTH.", right?

May 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rmcode
Mod
  • 1538

Yes, that's correct, it's added now.

May 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Thank you!

May 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

So, days of the month are definite = emphatic structure,

but days of the week are indefinite = use form of bod? (eg Mae, Bydd, Roedd etc)

"Roedd ddoe dydd Sul" not "Roedd ddoe yw dydd Sul" or "Dydd Sul yw ddoe" ?

October 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc

A particular day, month, person are all ‘definite’, so, depending on whether you are emphasising ddoe or dydd Sul as the focus of your meaning:

  • Ddoe oedd dydd Sul., (not echdoe, say) or
  • Dydd Sul oedd ddoe., (not dydd Sadwrn, say)
October 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

Hmm Duolingo didn' t notify me that you'd replied.

I don't understand why dydd Sul is different from dydd Sadwrn. Oh are you talking about the emphasis?

October 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

Person? So Tuesday and March are both definite? Even though there are lots of both?

October 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc

Well, y dref/the town is definite, even though there are lots of towns.

Perhaps a handy working definition is that any proper noun (name in capitals), a pronoun, or a noun preceded by a definite article ’r/yr/y is a definite thing. There are probably some exceptions, though...

October 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

I see from the FB group that non-emphatic constructions like "Mae heddiw yn ddydd Sul" are okay? I guess also "Roedd ddoe yn ddydd Sadwrn"

October 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rmcode
Mod
  • 1538

Yes, that can work.

Since 'Today is a Sunday' is valid in English.

Thanks for pointing that out.

But you can't use it for dates, eg 'Mae heddiw yn unfed ar ddeg' since 'Today is an eleventh' makes no sense in English either.

October 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

Hehe hello. Hopefully the point is that it's valid in Welsh :-P I hope ibisc agrees with that.

I dare ask ... what is the context you'd say this phrase? Since my very similar original phrase was corrected to the emphatic instead of this, on the grounds that it was much more common?

(Also if I got paid on the eleventh of each month, I think I could say "today is an eleventh" in English, but that would be rare)

October 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

So, in what context would you say "Mae heddiw yn ddydd Sul" ?

December 11, 2017
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