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  5. "Yes, we love cheese."

"Yes, we love cheese."

Translation:Oui, nous adorons le fromage.

February 27, 2013

62 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anders.knudsen

why is 'nous aimons du fromage' no good?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

In French, generalities need the definite article le/la/l'/les:

  • nous aimons le fromage
  • nous aimons la bière
  • nous aimons les chansons (songs - feminine)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anders.knudsen

thanks. How do you tell these constructions apart? In your example, how do you know if the person is saying 'we like the cheese' or 'we like cheese (in general)'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larisa_L

I would guess - from the context. In Russian we don't use neither definite nor indefinite articles and are still able to understand each other clearly. You can always say - I like this cheese or I usually like cheese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dekim.barton

Isn't one part of "du" already a definite article? I don't understand why the addition of "de" change it. Any help would be appreciated as I think I'm missing something simple.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

Sometimes "du" means "of the" and might indicate possession. Sometimes "du" means "some". It depends on the context.

  • Je mange du fromage = I eat some cheese.
  • Je mange un tiers du fromage. = I eat a third of the cheese.
  • Le fromage du jour = The cheese of the day.
  • Le fromage du chien = The dog's cheese

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jcboy14

how do i say "i like some cheese please"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

Well, we would say either "I would like some cheese, please"(J'aimerais du fromage, s'il te/vous plaît) or "I want cheese, please" (Je veux du fromage, s'il te/vous plaît).

"I like some cheese please" doesn't sound right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eaziduz

If the sentence had been, say, "white cheese", that would be specific- as written, it can only be general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/indepket

But cheese have different types...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Freya394424

Why is it le fromage and not du fromage? Is it because the verb is aimer?If the sentence were: Yes, we eat cheese, would it be: Oui, nous mangeons du fromage?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"we love cheese" and "we eat cheese" are built the same way in English but not in French because they express different notions:

  • nous aimons le fromage: "cheese" in general, all types of cheese, cheese as a category: then the French require definite article le/la/les

  • nous mangeons du fromage: a certain quantity of cheese, not a whole cheese but a bit of it, some of the cheese: then the French use the partitive (part of) form with preposition "de" + definite article le/la


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scottwachal

Awesome comment! Very helpful.

My french girlfriend says that in practice you wouldn't notice someone saying it either way and even fluent people interchange it, but on a technical level this explanation is the correct way to think about it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Silentpoet

How do I know which one duolingo wants me to write down? Sometimes it is du and sometimes it is le. How am I supposed to know which one to write down?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

You are not supposed to know before you have learned any new notion. To find the answer to your question, please read my previous post.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Silentpoet

I understand there is a difference between "I like a certain quantity of cheese" and "I like cheese in general" and that the first one is "J'aime du fromage" and the second one is "J'aime le fromage"

The thing that I don't understand is that if duolingo is asking me to translate the french "J'aime du fromage" or "J'aime le fromage" I can fill in "I like cheese" in both cases and be labeled correct. So my question is if duolingo asks me to translate "I like cheese" how can I tell which one it is that duolingo wants me to pick? Because sometimes I fill in du fromage and it says that it is correct, sometimes it is incorrect. Sometimes I fill in le fromage and it is correct and sometimes it is incorrect. There is no consistency.

Your previous posts don't explain this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Duolingo will not ask you to translate "j'aime du fromage" because it is not correct French.

"J'aime du / de la..." is not something you would say as a statement about your tastes.

In the French logic, you cannot like/love an undefined quantity of something.

What you can say is: "j'aime manger du fromage", because then "fromage" will be the object of "manger" and not "j'aime".

If Duolingo asks you to translate "I like cheese", you will remember that appreciation verbs (aimer, adorer, préférer, détester, apprécier, haïr...) naturally introduce generalities (construction with definite article le/la/les) and translate "j'aime le fromage" because there is no alternative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

Also see here http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/some

used to refer to certain members of a group or certain types of a thing, but not all of them

I like some modern music (= but not all of it).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

What if Duo asked to translate "I like some cheese"? In other words, I don't like all cheese, just some cheese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Z.Shan
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@ThanKwee:
What if Duo asked to translate "I like some cheese"? In other words, I don't like all cheese, just some cheese.

If I don't like all kinds of cheese, just blue cheese, it's still "blue cheese" in general, so

J'aime le fromage bleu.

The only situations of "I don't like all cheese, just some cheese" that I can think of is

-I'd like some cheese for now.
-Je voudrais du fromage maintenant.
or
-I like to eat some cheese.
-J'aime manger du fromage.

Why would you say "I like some cheese, not all" when you want to express your preference to this kind of food or you want to eat some of the food?

2013.11.04


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

@Carl. You're right that saying "I like some types of cheese" is better, but I could say "I like some cheese" and for me it would mean the same thing. Of course in spoken English, some would be emphasized. In written English, it's more confusing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Z.Shan
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@ThanKwee:
@Carl. You're right that saying "I like some types of cheese" is better, but I could say "I like some cheese" and for me it would mean the same thing. Of course in spoken English, some would be emphasized. In written English, it's more confusing.

@ThanKwee:
Also see here http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/some

used to refer to certain members of a group or certain types of a thing, but not all of them

I like some modern music (= but not all of it).

D'accord. I get your point. Let's see how @Sitesurf is going to explain this. ;)

2013.11.04


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

@Carl_Shan & ThankWee:

"I like some cheese" would probably mean that you like some types of cheese and not others (blue ones vs white ones, or cow milk vs goat milk...).

The French would then be: "j'aime certains fromages"(in plural), because here "some" does not mean "an undefined quantity of cheese" but just "some vs all".

Alternatively, "I like some cheese" could mean "some but not much".

The French would then be: "J'aime manger un peu de fromage" (introduction of verb manger to make it work).

In addition:

  • "I'd like some cheese" = "j'aimerais (bien) du fromage"

(2013.11.18 - For whatever reason, I did not know you were expecting clarification from me...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

Thank you so much Sitesurf. I finally understand when to use "de, du, de la, des, le, la, les or certains/certaines " correctly. Such simple little words. I would have never imagined that they could be so tricky to use correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Very pleased to read that, ThanKwee! Continue !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Z.Shan
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Thank you very much, Sitesurf! I learn new things from you every time!

2013.12.09


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Freya394424

Perfect, that answers my question! Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/golfhotel

oh yeah, i think i quite understand it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robertheathfield

Sorry to disagree but in English we eat cheese can either mean we would eat the cheese on offer or just we eat all cheeses. Whereas the French is specific therefore duolingo should make it clear what it means when it asks the question we like cheese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Sentence after sentence, Duo offer examples on how the language you learn can differ from( or resemble), your own.

That is why Duo has proposed so many sentences that may look almost identical but are not. You therefore have to pay attention to every word and ask yourself about the meaning before translating.

  • we eat the cheese on offer is "nous mangeons le fromage proposé" (specific)

  • we eat cheese does not mean "we eat all cheeses". Adverb "all" gives a specific meaning. In French: "nous mangeons du fromage " vs "nous mangeons tous les fromages".

  • we eat any cheese = nous mangeons n'importe quel fromage

  • we eat (some) cheese is "nous mangeons du fromage" ie an undefined quantity of cheese (mass word, uncountable object)

  • I love cheese in general is "j'aime le fromage, en général", because "aimer, détester, adorer, préférer, haïr" are appreciation verbs, which naturally introduce generalities, constructed with a definite article (le, la, les).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robertheathfield

thank you for your patience :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLara

If "nous aimons le fromage" is about cheese in general, how do I say that we like a specific piece of cheese?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

you will say "j'aime ce fromage" (this cheese) or you will specify it "j'aime le fromage que j'ai acheté hier" or you will give it its name: camembert, gruyère, comté, beaufort, époisses, bleu, brie, chabichou, chaource, étorki, livarot, maroilles, morbier, muster, reblochon... (the list is too long for this thread, maybe look at this: http://www.quiveutdufromage.com/fiche-fromage?gclid=CLz71IHD77YCFdHLtAodG3cAzg

Note that in general, cheese nouns are masculine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abey

Why can't I just put "aimons" with no 'nous' ... The verb is already conjugated specifically to the subject. Do French people place nous on front or do they just say aimons .. In Spanish we don't add nosotros, we can just say queremos queso


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krashman

Spanish elides subjects, French and English do not. "Bebo" is "I drink" or "Je bois."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GondorKidFTW

I swear this site has contradicted itself more times than most politicians! One minute I need to say 'le' to involve 'the', and the next, I'm not supposed to include it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Maybe not: you have to focus on the verb used:

  • with action verbs (manger, boire, prendre, vendre, acheter...), you use the partitive "du/de la" with uncountable objects, every time the meaning is "an undefined quantity of".

je mange du pain, je respire de l'air, j'achète de la salade

  • with appreciation verbs (adorer, aimer, détester, haïr, préférer, apprécier), you use definite articles le/la/les with countable or uncountable objects, the meaning becoming a generality

j'adore le fromage (en général), je préfère la brioche (en général), je déteste les légumes (en général).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GondorKidFTW

Thanks, that makes things a lot more clear now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elamorela

There should be some tips about it on duolingo, not here, in comments, but still thank you very much for showing us this so clearly :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusieT

why is it le fromage - that would be 'the cheese' rather than cheese or some cheese as indicated by 'du'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Maybe you could read what I wrote yesterday on the same topic (just above)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/acidblood

its not we love "the" cheese... so why do i have to use "le fromage" and not du fromage


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

why don't you read what was said before on this thread about generalities in French?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anarchymaaa

It seems like some sentences require "du" before the subject to be consideed correct and some are considered wrong if "du" is used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

please read the whole thread, the answer to your question is above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jparaya

doesn't use the article, why can't use "du" then???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

please read the whole thread, the answer to your question is above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/awesomeyay

I wonder, would "on aime le fromage" have been accepted.... it's what first came to mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daisyboo247

It says "yes, we love cheese" but when i answered "oui, nous aimons fromage" it said it was "le fromage" but that wpuld mean "we like the cheese"... why is this???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

Sitesurf explains this very carefully. It's the second comment from the top of this very page. If you're still confused, we continue to clarify it with further questions that Sitesurf so generously answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JakeLiu3

What is the difference between aimon and jaime? It confuse me, a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

French verbs have extensive conjugations and their ending often changes in accordance with the person:

je mange, tu manges, il/elle/on mange, nous mangeons, vous mangez, ils/elles mangent.

Note that "mange", "manges" and "mangent" are all pronounced alike.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/golfhotel

'Aimons' is used when the subject is 'nous', 'aime' when the subject is 'je'. 'Jaime' is je+aime, and it should be j'aime


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlotteMertz

On a different track here, why is one answer "nous aimons..." (we like) but the alternative answer is "on adore..." (we love)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jcboy14

without context, thye generally give the same meaning.

:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlotteMertz

I don't understand the use of "on" with "adore".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Z.Shan
Mod
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"aimer" means "to like" or "to love"
"adorer" means "to love" or "to adore"
As you can see, sometimes their meanings overlap and sometimes they don't. Even when they both mean "to love", there are nuances. Please have a look at this thread by Remy: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/736970

2014.07.06


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rachelgraham18

Pourqoui est-ce que c'est "le fromage" et pas "du fromage"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Saturnz_barzzz

Le fromage du jour=the cheese of the day.

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