https://www.duolingo.com/finndj

Difference between adessive case and "mellett"

finndj
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Szia!

I have reached the adhesive skill (though I have done it before in the past before resetting my tree), but I don't really understand what the difference is between it, and using the postposition "mellett."

Could someone help me out?

Köszönöm!

1 year ago

10 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Joeintheory

First, throw away everything you've been told about -nál/-nél/mellett meaning by. Start from the beginning. Hungarian has a very logical, self-consistent terminology for location, but you have to start from the ground up in understanding it, and not try to translate it too much into English prepositions.

So what exactly do the -nál/-nél suffixes mean, then?

Basically, in Hungarian, you have to be very specific about what kind of location you're talking about, and they are not interchangeable. The three choices are: you are either talking about a point in space (háznál), a point on the surface of something (házon), or containment in a "box" (házban). All other locative suffixes merely mean to or from these locations.

So when you want to say where something is, for example, relative to my house (házam) you have to choose what kind of location házam is. Is it a box? Then you can say in my house, házamban. Is it a surface? Maybe you want to describe the lamp on the side of my house (a lámpa a házamon).

Is my house a point in space? Maybe like you are thinking of where my house is located on a street, or maybe the 3-D coordinates of my house? Maybe you're thinking in contrast to the location of your house, where we are going to meet? az én házamnál találkozunk, nem a te házadnál? At my house, not at your house

But remember, these locative suffixes are not interchangeable!! házamnál isn't referring to in my house - because we've not chosen to think of my house as a box, but rather a point in space. If you had meant to think of it as a box, you should have used -ban. So házamnál is talking only about the location/vicinity of my house, but not insideness/outsideness of the "box", which is why it's often (confusingly) described as by.

Now, mellett is definitely next to. That location referred to as házamnál? Well, the location right next to it is házam mellett! Now, obviously, where one location stops and the other starts is subjective and contextual (just don't think of the házamnál location as a box you are in or out of!!) But definitely, if we are neighbors, your house is probably not at my house (a te házad nem az én házamnál van) but is probably next to my house (a te házad az én házam mellett van)

I'm not a native speaker, so this description is maybe not perfect, but I don't feel any confusion anymore regarding adessive case. As long as you keep this locative system in mind, I hope you will find you can understand -nál/-nél suffixes much better and distinguish them from mellett.

You can also see my comment here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19991842

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/trisec
trisec
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A few corrections: -az én házamnál találkozunk, nem a te házadnál?, a te házad nem az én házamnál van, a te házad az én házam mellett van (topic goes before the verb, contrast has to be marked with personal pronouns)

Good explanation though. For anyone who knows even a bit of German, the page "Ungarische Grammatik" can explain this further. There's this 3x3 table titled "Räumliche Verhältnisse" (spatial relations) and it sheds some light on this trinity of "whence-where-whither" and "inside-surface-vicinity".

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joeintheory

Köszi, megjavíttam a hibámat :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/trisec
trisec
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kijavítottam a hibá(i)mat*

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KatyLovesFrench

Wow, great explanation! thank you :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/trisec
trisec
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The adessive "-nál/-nél" is more-or-less the equivalent of English "by/near/at" / German "bei/in der Nähe von". "Mellett" is the equivalent of English "next to/beside" / German "neben".

I.e. "mellett" is used when something is directly next to some other thing, while the adessive is used when something is in the general vicinity.

Also, the plural of "szia" is "sziasztok". Use it to address more people (~hi, everyone).

(P.S. there's no "adhesive" case. For gluing something to something else, use the allative "-hoz-hez-höz", e.g. "az asztalhoz ragasztom a kezem" (I'm gluing my hand to the table) :P)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jsiehler
jsiehler
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For what it's worth, I think most people answering questions here are unlikely to remember the latinate case names like "adessive" and so on (and there's not much value in learning them yourself). It's easiest to do like trisec does and just say "the -nál/-nél ending" or "the -hoz/-hez-höz ending" and so on.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/finndj
finndj
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Haha, I think autocorrect may have decided that I meant adhesive..

Thanks for the help, that makes a lot of sense, especially with the German!

Thank you again!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zsuzsi97194

I had to turn off autocorrect to keep from getting wrong answers when i was not proofreading very carefully each time. Caused me to do lessons over and over because of careless errors caused by my naughty tablet but in the end it was useful because the frustrating repetition did make me learn the sentences I had to feed back to the DuoBird.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KatyLovesFrench

haha you are very funny Trisec and helpful :) thanks! I was also confused about this.

1 year ago
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