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https://www.duolingo.com/JoThelan

یک گزینه ی تازه برای امکانات اخیراً حذف شده در دولینگوPlease help me contact our Farsi community

JoThelanPlus
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This discussion is designed to reach the Farsi speaking members of the Duolingo community and inform them of an additional language resource. Since no Farsi forum currently exists, the main forum is the best place to post it. Please show a little charity and kindness so that they will have to opportunity to discover this.

انجمن گرامی دولینگو،

مایلم شما را از وجود یک سایت تازه برای یادگیری زبان مطلع کنم که به وسیله ی زبان آموزان جدی و برای چنین کسانی طراحی شده است. "ترجمه ی گروهی" فرصتی برای ترجمه ی نوشته های "کپی رایت آزاد" در اختیار شما می گذارد و در عمل محدودیتی برای تعداد زبان های پشتیبانی شده وجود نخواهد داشت. همچنین، در این انجمن می توان به بحث و گفت و گو درباره ی موضوعات مربوط به زبان، دستور ، واژگان، اصطلاحات و... پرداخت.

خواهشمندم در نظر داشته باشید که این جایگزینی برای دولینگو نیست و هیچ لینگات، امتیاز تجربه (اکس پی)، درجه ی ترجمه و... در کار نخواهد بود. هدف ما ارائه ی فرصتی برای رشد توانایی های زبانیست، نه بازی سازی. هر زمان که توانایی نوشتار و آغاز کردن گفت و گو را در زبان مورد نظرتان یافتید، این انجمن مشتاقان زبان را به عنوان مکملی برای دولینگو قلمداد کنید. همچنین، هیچ درس رسمی وجود نخواهد داشت؛ همه ی محتوا به وسیله ی زبان آموزان ساخته و هدایت می شود.

اگر علاقه مندید، لطفا در این جا ثبت نام کنید:
http://communitytranslation.freeforums.net

با احترام،
جو ثِلِن

پ.ن. من فارسی صحبت نمی کنم، و این نوشته ترجمه ی یکی از کاربران است.
Original post

1 year ago

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Ifphigenia
Ifphigenia
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I am staggered at the number of downvotes this perfectly legitimate and helpful post has gathered. Is this community so mean spirited and inconsiderate that it genuinely wants to stifle a post about language learning, a post which falls well within the guidelines for the Duolingo English forum.

I have to ask myself why this particular language seems to have provoked so much animus and the potential answers are not pleasant. This is supposed to be a community based on seeking to communicate with its fellow human beings by learning their languages, since when did some languages become unacceptable?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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Lady Ifphigenia, you pointed out a possibility I was trying hard not to think of, but with utmost grace and eloquence. Thank you.
I, for one, am used to people on the internet wanting me out, and I'm well-prepared for such obstacles. But it pains me how my language, a language that somehow, I know not with what power, carries love and peace with her very sound, should be thought a language of resentment and war.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ifphigenia
Ifphigenia
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Sir Aria, I would prefer not to think about this possibility myself but I am at a loss to explain the reaction any other way and that saddens me greatly. I am sorry that you have had to become used to people on the internet wanting you out but the internet can be a very unpleasant place at times. It is good that you are prepared for such obstacles but dreadful that you should need to be, particularly on a language learning site where you would expect people to be more rational and interested in learning about new languages and unfamiliar cultures.

If the beauty and eloquence of your language matches the beauty and eloquence of your English, then it must be beautiful indeed. Certainly, translations I have read of Farsi poets have all impressed me by their depth of feeling and ability to touch the heart. I regret that I cannot remember the names, both because I would like to tell you who they were abd also because I would love to read them again.

It is an unpalatable fact of life that there are always those who prefer hatred to love and war to peace but they exist the world over and the only true path to peace and harmony lies in mutual understanding, something which can only be enhanced by learning each other's languages.

I do not, unfortunately, speak Farsi myself but as a British woman I can say without reservation that the few Iranians I have ever known have all been extremely courteous and friendly, true gentlemen and ladies in the old-fashioned sense. I am proud to call them my friends.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

Beautifully written, as usual Gena.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ifphigenia
Ifphigenia
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Thank you Rachel :-)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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(Oh, that "Sir" is so very unusual! I'm not a knight, and you're wiser and more knowledgeable than I, I'm just Aria!)

I shouldn't have been such a pessimist regarding the Iranians-only obstacles on the internet, but let me say now that it's even amusing! I have tons of fun breaking through walls put there for my nationality, or finding alternatives for the service behind those walls! (Not to be mistaken for piracy, my code doesn't allow that) I even take note of these experiences in my diary! (On the other hand, I have the constant fear of e.g. Amazon finding out my nationality and thus wiping all my Kindle purchases! Ah well)
Honestly, I think the person judging me by the country I was born in is better off at a distance. Let them downvote and walk away, it's not the end of the world. Besides, Duolingo discussions are nearing the point of "hopeless".

Actually, I struggled to write a comment that can near your eloquence, so your compliment means a lot, thank you. Persian certainly isn't as eloquent of the English of a fallible learner, she's (or "it's") more eloquent! I'm glad to see your experience of translations differs from mine! And as a matter of fact, English translations will never be able to copy the music the poem is written in, the Beher, roughly the exact platform every single vowel and consonant should be placed in accordance with, creating a verse in traditional poetry. English isn't as compatible with this system. Take a look at this piece, "Sun-faith Land" or "Loving Land", as an example for rhyming in traditional poetry, not behers. (And it's performed with music, but with performers' mouths instead of instruments! "Umbum Umbum Umbum" and such aren't part of the poem!)(I can also link people to other songs that display the most known forms of behers better)

I personally look forward to the day that "light" would mean "light" without the existence of darkness. We can all work our way there, I can't find words other than the ones you already used for this!

That's very delightful to hear!

(edit about English compatibility with beher, changed from "simply isn't compatible" to "isn't as compatible")

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

Aria, can I just say that I love the image that comes to my mind of you, and others like you, breaking through walls to let the information and the light pour through? As a means for education, personal betterment, and to connect with the outside world, I approve of this whole-heartedly. You are part of the human family too, and should be allowed at the table, to drink deeply of our collected knowledge within the bonds of friendship. Good luck to you, gentle Persian poet.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, my dear American friend! I won't sit idly by while someone who knows nothing of either "mutual understanding" or "technology" tries to silence my voice, and the world's, be sure of that! And, of course, I'm duty-bound to spread word of Iranian culture and heritage.

I've been thinking of your comment for about an hour, wondering what would I be if I was successfully silenced; certainly not Aria. I shuddered at the thought of not knowing and consequently not loving some friends I've made over the internet, people who touched down on my mind, even on my soul each in their own way. Thanks for making me think of this!

"Poet"?! :D I've only written one verse of Persian poetry my whole life! (Hard work, believe me) With things are they are, I can't be a poet at the same time His Lordship Rumi is, so, no poet! But I'm very flattered, دستتون درد نکنه! (/dastetoon dard nakone/ may your hand not ache is a form of the most common way to thank someone in Farsi)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

@Aria, I'm glad Aria is bold, unsilenced and wholly Aria. The world needs more people like this! Thank you for the Tedtalk link; it was nourishment for the mind, and I will share it with my family tonight.

I use the term poet in reference to how you phrase and shape your words. You seem to choose them with care and write in a thoughtful manner. I have to read what you write several times, because I am astonished that this is coming from a non-native speaker! If you are this eloquent in your (second?) language, how much more so must you be in your mother tongue?

Best wishes to you. I sincerely hope to see the day when the technological curtain lifts, when the barriers between our respective countries are no more and we can freely associate. A day of freedom without fear of destruction. One day, let us hope.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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@CommeuneTexane in reply to "I'm glad Aria is...":

(It certainly is going to take me some time to digest all of your kind words. I'm not sure if my feelings can be contained in words right now, but I'm going to try anyway!)

That talk, that talk! I'm so very glad and grateful you liked and plan to share it!

Although "thank you" seems to have lost its meaning in the face of your comment, thank you! It's true I try to think of all variables that can add to the comment or take it down, but I never thought a comment of mine would go to that level! I stand proud of my Farsi and English (second language) knowledge, whether you were exaggerating or not. (Note to self- It's best to always remain a student no matter what, and you're not infallible!)

Let us hope. (And she calls me eloquent! That's why I had a tendency to type a "thank you" after each word in this particular comment)
May the stars shine upon you path, my friend.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

Some mistake foreign government decisions or policies that they don't like for an entire people, I'm sad to say. The distrust and fear then extends to everyone associated with that language or culture. This "us versus them" mentality is closed-minded and dangerous. I think it is more important than ever to keep the lines of communication open, to learn from one another, to share ideas, and the beautiful parts of our respective cultures. It is important to know that you will find friends on the internet too. Your language is beautiful to my ears, and though I don't understand the words, it has a musicality to it.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ifphigenia
Ifphigenia
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I couldn't agree with you more Rachel. It is crucially important that each and every one of us judges each person on their own merits and doesn't dismiss an entire nation based on prejudice and/or ignorance. That is a highly dangerous path to follow as we all know to our cost, history is littered with examples of the damage it causes.

I for one choose all my friends on their character and behaviour alone but on the internet, I often don't even know what their, race, colour, creed or sexual orientation might be but then, why should it enter my head, they have no bearing whatsoever upon whether someone is a decent person or not, they are and always should be irrelevant.

As you say Rachel, now of all times, sharing knowledge of each others languages and cultures and forming friendships with people you think of as fellow human beings first and foremost is our strongest defence against those who peddle hatred. Let us do our best here to foster harmony and peace, starting with your beautiful language Aria.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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I believe in every single letter of your comment. These (excuse my tone) cursed, disgusting and narrow views got us here, and they and the people bearing them need to be stopped, and as soon as possible. One of the few paths open right now is as you said; communicate with the world. That reminds me of this talk, probably my favorite TED Talk of all time!

Indeed, well put! I've found great friends and made acquaintance of great people on the internet!(Needless to say some of them are present right here) My comment was written a little too pessimistically.

Thank you. If you start learning the language, I'll be more than happy to help you!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cam_and_Alex
Cam_and_Alex
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Beautifully said, Gena.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ifphigenia
Ifphigenia
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Thank you Camden, I am truly shocked at the response to this post.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Keepinggoing

thank you for sharing this! I upvoted your post, it is important!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cam_and_Alex
Cam_and_Alex
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Thank you! The 20+ vote trolls that came through and swept over all of us with downvotes over the course of the day have been quite frustrating.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LaKapsule44

I understood nothing, but... I totally agree with that !

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ryannichols7
ryannichols7
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I'm just here because I want a Farsi course.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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Should you start learning the language, I will be happy to answer any questions as a native!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ryannichols7
ryannichols7
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thank you!! I'm very interested (Iranian culture as a whole - and I love Abbas Kiarostami's films). just a matter of learning the script and figuring out decent resources.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aria487
Aria487
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You're totally welcome, of course! Abbas Kiarostami is one of our distinguished directors indeed, but I'll always prefer Asghar Farhadi! :D Memrise can help you with the script. Try this one as a complete basic course, or this one just to learn the alphabet.
The second one has a better focus on alphabet, and teaches you some vocabulary as well. There's no audio, but you can use the audio here (click on each letter to hear its pronunciation) I might try and record for the second course. (if I can contact the creator with the streams as they are... well, are not more like)
Wikipedia also gives a nice table of letters which you can print and write and write and write. Anyway, don't let a new alphabet discourage you!

I'm afraid I can't help you much on resources. Aside from pointing out IranSeda as our frontline radio archive and app, and Telewebion live as a non-official organization that's been doing good so far. I linked you to the News channel, news 24/7! (Not healthy, I know, but it's most immersing! Just look at the panel of channels just below the player and quality selector, it says "پخش زنده", you can select any channel, but there are only 20 channels with official Farsi, others speak local dialects. The first 16 channels are in official Farsi)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

Dear Duo community,

Please show a bit of compassion and ignore this post if you are not interested. Downvoting it only makes it impossible for those who may benefit from seeing it. As JoThelan wrote, there isn't a Farsi forum for this post.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/psionpete
psionpete
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This post is very rude because it is using a forum for a purpose which it was not intended for. It does this purely because there is no other suitable forum, but instead of asking for a suitable forum it simply takes over the Duolingo forum and invites others to use it for the purpose proposed by JoThelan.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheEeveeLord

asking for a suitable forum

You can't just ask Duolingo to make a new forum. It's not like Reddit where you can just create a new subreddit with a click of a button. Pretty much the only forums are for the language courses that Duolingo offers, so if they don't offer a language, the corresponding forum doesn't exist.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/psionpete
psionpete
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If the language course does not exist why do you need a forum?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheEeveeLord

Just because it isn't a Duolingo course yet doesn't mean there aren't people who speak it or are learning it on Duolingo. Japanese isn't a course yet and there are still a lot of people who are learning Japanese who use Duolingo (myself included)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/psionpete
psionpete
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True but you are not encouraging other Japanese speakers to communicate in the Duolingo forums. If all these Farsi learners/speakers wish to chat and practice Farsi then there are other sites designed for just this activity instead of invading Duolingo.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheEeveeLord

I'd hardly call it an "invasion." So what if there're a few more posts on Farsi on the forums? It's not that much of a bother, and it will probably be rather interesting. If you don't like it, just ignore it.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JoThelan
JoThelanPlus
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Pete, the forum posting guide states that posts concerning languages and language learning are acceptable posts. It also states that if a dedicated language forum is not available for a certain language, then such posts, if written in that language should be posted in the general "Duolingo for English" forum.

1) This is a post concerning languages and language learning.
2) This post is in Farsi.
3) There is not a dedicated Farsi forum.
It follows then that 4) is the conclusion.

4) This Farsi post concerning languages and language learning should be posted in the general "Duolingo for English" forum.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cam_and_Alex
Cam_and_Alex
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This post is the antithesis of rude; we are trying to reach as many members of the language learning community as possible, from all walks of life, making this a post of an all-inclusive nature. If you have a problem with it, please just let it be.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/psionpete
psionpete
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Who is this royal 'we'? The owners of Duolingo have created guidelines on how to use the site and I see nothing about making the forums all-inclusive, quite the opposite in fact.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cam_and_Alex
Cam_and_Alex
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This "we" are the staff members of CT. And the forums are indeed supposed to be all-inclusive for language-learning and ethnic/cultural purposes. Considering the fact that this post is indeed about language learning and offers an alternative, this does indeed follow the guidelines and is relevant. If you have a problem with the fact that it is in a non-supported language by Duolingo, I'm surprised I haven't seen you downvoting and ridiculing on the Finnish lessons that others have done while Duolingo has not been putting one of the most-requested languages in the Incubator. This is no different than someone making a post about the intricacies of the Georgian alphabet.

1 year ago