New tree development - Update & 500k Learners
We are more than glad to see that the course has officially hit the 500k learner mark. That’s amazing! It was only 2 months ago when the course hit 200k, yet there are quite a lot of things that have changed (and about to be changed.)
So, once again, thank you for all your comments, reports, feedback and kind words. It is all greatly appreciated, and deeply encouraging for us to continue working on this course, to make it even better for all of you. ^.^
Also, a huge thank you to everyone that commented on our first ‘New Tree’ discussion (https://www.duolingo.com/comment/21439026). Thank you for sharing your concerns and ideas with us. They have been all taken into consideration. Some of them we already had in mind, some others were quite enlightening. All of them were extremely helpful. Which is why we thought it would be nice to give you another update on the new tree.
Here is a list of changes we have already started making. Skills to be combined:
Travel and Transportation combined in Travel.
Religion and Spiritual combined in Spiritual.
Numbers and measures combined in Numbers.
Skills to be dropped:
Parts of Speech (*)
Skills to get revamped:
Additional Skills to be added for already existing ones:
extra Tense skills
extra Adjective skills
The next update, containing info on new skills, will be posted later this month! ^.^
-The Greek Team
(*) There is either going to be a catalogue of the terms and their translation added somewhere in the tips and notes, or the skill itself will be added as a bonus skill, for those interested.
(**) Some terms will be moved to the Education skill.
(If you have any ideas and missed our first discussion, you can still comment on this one as well!^.^)
Our latest update: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28017297
Please keep the parts of speech in some form! For speakers of English and Romance languages, which tend to use Latin roots for abstract concepts, developing an intuitive grasp of different word roots is key to learning Greek (or, say, German) in the long term. The parts of speech section is great for that.
Seconded! I actually really liked learning the parts of speech - it's not something that I've seen in other Greek courses (and as an added bonus, they helped cement certain other words in my head, via the function/meaning of the POS). And thank you for making this course so detailed - it really is excellent, better than some I've paid substantial money for. I don't struggle much with learning Greek itself; the first language besides English I learned was German, so also a non-Romance language, with complex inflections and grammar. But I spent eight years studying Attic Greek and keeping my vocab for modern Greek (not to mention my pronunciation...) straight is sometimes a bit of a challenge! This course is so far the perfect blend of repetition without over-saturation.
You are so kind to say all this and we are grateful to hear we are helping you learn. We never stop updating and improving the course and any observations you have will be appreciated.
Thanks to all the moderators (as well as students) for promptly answering my endless questions! Unlike the Romance languages that I've learned, I find Greek to be very difficult. Toggling back and forth between Greek and English keyboards, trying to remember which Greek letters to use in the translations, understanding accusative and other tenses, etc. So, I've come to the conclusion that "total immersion" would be the best way to learn Greek; i.e., live in Athens for a few years. Like I did when I lived in Madrid, Spain for 5 yrs and became fluent in Spanish in less than 1 yr. Anyway, onward and upward, everyone. Hopefully, we'll all be "polyglots" in the not-to-distant future!
I suspect a lot of the trouble you're encountering is because the Romance languages are all relatively "grammar lite" like English--no cases, heavy reliance on prepositions, etc.--and they all have a common origin in Latin, so you're going to run into a lot of familiar words, both within the Romance languages themselves and with all the Latin/Romance words borrowed into English.
Greek, in many ways, is like leaping into the unknown; a different alphabet, grammatical cases, and a vocabulary that is much more foreign, as Greek is its own separate branch of Indo-European, so we're talking something like 3000 years or so of independent development with fewer cross-cultural contacts (although, as English speakers, we're relatively lucky, as scholars imported a lot of Greek loan words into our language, so it's not altogether unfamiliar as a result).
The key, I'd say, is to humbly bear through it and don't be afraid to practice well beyond what you have to. At some point, with repeated exposure, it should just kind of "click" in the brain. As a side effect, perhaps, if you happen to learn another language with grammatical cases, that kind of knowledge should help make it a bit easier to learn the next time around. Good luck!
Thank you so much "Thidrekr" for expressing what must be the key to getting you head around a non-latin language like Greek. I wish all learners could read this and be able to embrace Greek as something new. It will go a long way in making learning so much more effective and less stressful.
Answering learners' questions is what we are here for, so thank you for posting them in the first place ;D
You certainly have a point with "total immersion". I do believe it's a way for a person to get fluent in a language quickly (quickly meaning in a shorter period of time.). After all, we can't teach people everything, just cover as much as we possibly can. Speaking practice is probably the key to getting fluent. ^.^
Greek is a bit of a shock after the Romance languages. Have you tried the Language Transfer audio course? I find this free course really helpful in getting me to think in Greek. http://www.languagetransfer.org/complete-greek
Also I find the Memrise Duolingo Greek vocabulary flashcards an essential aid, https://www.memrise.com/course/1099099/duolingo-greek/ . It is really useful to learn the vocabulary for each new skill from Memrise before I go on to it with Duolingo.
Yes, I have tried Language transfer and I like it a lot and recommend it to others. I used Quizlet for my other courses: Italian and German and now have started Swedish.
I know a few 'feeling' words appear in the adjectives section or elsewhere, but it might be nice to have them as a separate skill, like some courses.
Oh, yes, we have already added that, containing many more words! ;) Thanks for the input!
A lingot from me for these news!
It is time to start a new tree, to become the tree mature in the end, as it happens to other languages, more widely spoken.
Hopefully all these months, the comments helped a lot to notice the mistakes and correct them.
I propose a part or some words common to most languages, as Greek is a language of culture, except for being a language for visitors and tourists. This very character of Greek makes it unique after all.
Άφησα μήνυμα και στο προφίλ σου αλλά επειδή τα έχουν αλλάξει δεν ξέρω αν υπάρχει τελικά, οπότε γραφω εδώ. Θυμάμαι μου είχες πει ότι θα κοιτάξετε τις αιτήσεις για καινούργιους, οπότε αν θέλετε ακόμα εγώ ενδιαφέρομαι να βοηθήσω με τα καινούργια πράγματα που θα φτιάξετε <3
I think lots of the vocabulary should be pushed back to late in the course. 5 lessons of animal names might be important for "fluency", but for the average speaker, most of those aren't coming up in daily speech.
Give just enough vocabulary to teach the grammar. Then the vocab can be fleshed out later.
If there are early vocab lessons, focus on the top 200-500 words or something, instead of "themed" lessons. That will have a much greater impact on the average students progress, and actual ability to communicate.
Thank you so much for making this course, and putting in even more effort into redesigning the tree! I can't wait to see the new tree! Let's see how long it takes for it to be released! Take as much as time as you need to get it right.
A hundred thousand thanks to all for such hard work and patience in answering questions. A suggestion, a five point bonus for answering all questions correctly at one go and a super ten for completing module with all accents correct! I have found its almost impossible to do a time test on the iPad, my internet is simply too slow. I like the latest adjustment which repeats any sentence you may have had incorrect at the end of the module. Best wishes for the revamp.
Well, massive thanks to you (and Jaye and Troll and Mizinamo) for putting so much time and effort into helping out us learners!
Congratulations on reaching 1.7 million of us learning Greek! I am very excited with everything I get from Greek duolingo. I just came to this discussion looking for an update on the new tree. I see your list and it addresses nearly everything I would say to you. Most important to me are the more advanced verbal forms, expressions with syntax, and more vocabulary. However I think most important for new people will be your revamp of ABC. It is unbelievably frustrating, as it must be to you not to be able to make the fixes immediately to it. And most important, thank you all for this gift to us.
(Any update on a release for the new tree? The new crown system is keeping me busy meanwhile, but I am very eager to see it!)
Thanks for all the hard work. It's much appreciated. Going through today and realizing a short unit focused on the use of the final "ν" when negating words would be very helpful.
Thank you so much. I'm enjoying learning this language so much, I'm absolutely in love with it. It's amazing to see all the effort you guys put into it. <3
We are so glad to see that you're enjoying the course! Thank you for your support and kind words! ^.^
500 more useful words between them 50 more verbs and their equivalents on the passive form
We are indeed going to include way more verbs, especially more passive ones (We did add some equivalents of the active ones in their passive form as well.) ^.^
Εγό πιστέβω πως το μάθημα Ελληνικά από Αγγλικά πρέπει να έχει παραπάνω προτάσεις που να είναι πραγματικές, διλαδί δεν λέμε "Γεια σου αγόρι" αλλά μένο στην Ελλάδα κερό και λέμε "Γεια σου αγορίνα". Ένα παράδειγμα είταν.
That is exactly one of the reasons for the new tree and we are trying to do just that. Thanks for the input.
I just want to say thank you for your hard work, this resource has greatly helped me in Learning Greek, even though I am a beginner my vocabulary has doubled since starting this course.
We are glad to know that you enjoyed the course. :) There is much more vocabulary and grammar to be covered in the new tree. It might take some time, but we are getting there. Thank you for your kind words. ^.^
δεν ξέρω αν είναι πόλυ αργά να γράφω εdώ αλλά...
Ιt would be really helpful if the notes in every skill listed all the words covered in the section!! That way I could make flashcards and focus in better on words I have difficulty with.
It's never too late ;D
Unfortunately, the Words tab is not available for the Greek course just yet, as it is not for many other languages. We (the Greek team) don't know if it will be added and if so, when that's going to happen. :/
We could enlist the words in the tips and notes section, but we don't know if that would be too helpful. :S
Listing it in the tips and notes section is what I meant!
See I always find that some words I learn far more easily and find myself reviewing sections writing down the troublesome words so as to work harder on them. It's very awkward doing it in this fashion however and if every new word was detailed in the tips and notes section it would make reviewing my studies far easier :D
Change the title to new Greek tree development so people can understand better
Well... This discussion's topic is Greek, and it's a sticky. It is clear, no?^.^ (Plus, I did name it like that to match the previous discussion title, and there wasn't any kind of confusion, as far as I know. ^.^)
Sorry you are right. I am using an older mobile phone and on Firefox for mobile the forum has some issues.
We are not sure if the pronunciation issue can be resolved, but I wouldn't say it is a huge issue. Some words here and there may might sound awkward (mostly because the voice is not one of a native or of an actual person recorded at all. It's a text-to-speech program.), but nothing major or too hard to understand. :/
I'm agreeing with Dimitra. The audio is pretty close to natural Greek with the odd off sounding word.
Thank you for working so hard on this amazing tree. I have a slight problem with the amount of skills I have to redo every single day because it drops from four bars to three. I don't think I should have to redo the same ones every day and I don't know how to improve that
Well, I do think that this is something that gets better with time and a lot of practice. While someone learns and pratices skills, most of them remain golden for a longer period of time:/
Thank you. I'm just having lots of trouble at the moment because I get up to ten skills to improve daily even though I do well most of the time
Duo is meant to be a learner-oriented method. The revisions and keeping the tree gold are there to inspire you to keep working but if you begin to be frustrated and stressed you lose interest. That is defeating the purpose.
Work at your own pace and don't worry about the tree or the revisions. I'm not saying not to revise which we all know is necessary to learn but do it at your own pace. And as Dimitra says the more you progress the longer the tree will stay gold. Oh, here's a hint. The more you check the drop down hints the more you'll be asked to revise so try to avoid "peeking" as much as you can. That's what I learned and many others who have advanced have taught me.
Dipthongs in pronunciation or abc section from a Greek friend: We have these vowels doples: (el tono always enter in the second letter of the two) αι (we say ε) example αίθουσα (éthusa) hall ει (we say ι) example εικόνα (ikóna) picture οι (we say ι) example οικογένεια (ikogénia) family ευ (we say εφ) example ευχαριστώ (efcharistó) thanks ου (we say u) example ουρανός (urano's) =sky