89 Comments
Yes but pls watch gender/number:
- masc sing: deuxième, second
- fem sing: deuxième, seconde
- mas plural: deuxièmes, seconds
- fem plural: deuxièmes, secondes
Thats the first time I've seen a word that is the same with masculine and feminine. Would have been nice if they kept the same guidelines as "deuxiem" (masc.) and "deuxieme"(fem.) I feel like there are so many "exceptions" in french. But its probably like that with all languages and I only notice this because I'm currently studying it. C'est la vie! :)
Not quite true, though: "riche, calme, rouge, jaune..." you have already learned a number of them.
why does the French bot say " une 'a' deuxieme biere? like he adds an "a" sound after une? I also noticed its the same for c'est.. can you please explain ?
The extra sound is the French schwa, sounding [uh].
French people from the south-west use it a lot where Parisians don't.
Please learn more about it: https://frenchcrazy.com/2013/04/the-french-schwa.html/
Hey MarvelousM94046, I replayed it a few times and I don't hear the 'a'. I think you might just be mixing it up with the beginning "d" sound of 'deuxieme'
MarvelousM94046, I do agree with you that a vowel is being pronounced, but the vowel is e. In French at the end of most words there is an ever so subtle pronunciation of the e, not enough to create a second syllable, but the bot is definitely saying oon-(euh) I am a native English speaker learning French since I was a child.
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They are interchangeable.
I found that often "second" is used when you have only two things to choose from, and "deuxième" when there is a list of more than two things.
Where did you find that? Sounds strange to me as I don't know about this rule (nor do I apply it).
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I remember my teacher explaining it to me once and it kind of made sense to me. Also found this thread but they don't say it is a rule or anything: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=154860
Frankly, there is no difference that can be noticed, except in specific phrases:
- rouler en seconde (drive in second gear)
- étudier en classe de seconde (study in 10th grade)
And even "la seconde guerre mondiale" is also called "la deuxième guerre mondiale".
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My college teacher gave this same explanation also (however that was more than 30 years ago, LOL)
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I'm shocked as that was what I understood, but googling it I see many references to this rule, including that it used to be that way but is no longer a rule.
My 1993 Collins Robert has for English "second" : deuxième (esp one of many) and second (gen one of two).
Of course in this case, you can only know in hindsight if there will be a third beer (or more) :-)
c'est ma seconde chaussure (of the pair/two) une deuxieme biere (of many beers)?
So, Sitesurf, how do you know which one to use? Or does it not matter?
Most French do not know the difference and use either (whatever the total number of shoes or beers).
Cllay: So, are deuxième and second synonyms?/synonymous?
In theory, "second" means that there have been only two, and "deuxième" that there are more or at least that a third one is possible. In reality, we tend to use "deuxième" for any case. There are few exceptions: "en seconde (vitesse)" is "second gear" and "je suis en seconde" (1st year in high school).
I said "another beer?" but it was wrong, no one ever says "a second beer?" tho!
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Whether they do or don't, Gabriele, we're learning a language, not etiquette. This is a language course to learn grammar, structure idioms rules and exceptions. It is not a holiday phrase book and, one needs to be specific here or one will be marked down. Another= un autre. And, again, on a language course your "Tho" is spelt "Though".
I don't agree. It does not make a lot of sense to try to learn something by making use of sentences or their translations that no one actually uses. It is even confusing, really, and unnecesserily so. Duolingo should have allowed the translation "another beer", instead of it's literal translation that no one uses in this situation.
instead of its literal translation
You are learning French and "une deuxième bière" is what one actually uses when one beer was drunk and you offer another one.
The translation you do not like is a mnemonic for you to memorize how to say this when you are in a French bar.
Thanks, SiteSurf. I understand that the French part is what is actually used in France. I hope the mnemonics works. It still seems odd to me, using a "wrong" translation to learn something. (Maybe that oddness is exactly what might make me remember the translation ;) ).
Precisely! Everyone has their own way of memorizing things, some use colors (for genders), others use numbers, others use silly phrases or associate funny pictures... whatever works for you is good!
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OK I was going to ask about this. Obviously you'd say "deuxième" if only one beer had been drunk. What if you were up to beer 30? Would you actually be counting how many beers you'd had and specifically say, "une trentième bière?"? Or is there a point where it's normal to say "une autre"? Maybe you'd only specify the second beer then when you get to the third you'd start saying "another"?
I like these conversations where we find out about what's normal in a culture, not just what the text books say.
On another note, I agree with M.T that the English translation should read "Another beer?" because that's much more natural sounding in English (even though not word-for-word).
"une autre bière" is totally natural if you don't mean to count them.
Just keep in mind that the word taught here is "deuxième" and not "autre". Now you know the word and can use every time you need to count things.
It's wise here to not over-rationalise sentences that are written with the words available at any stage in the course.
I already posted them earlier on this thread:
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la seconde (année) = 1st year of highschool (lycée)
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la seconde (vitesse) = 2nd gear (automobile)
Our count is reversed:
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collège (fm 12 to 15 years of age): sixième (6e), cinquième (5e), quatrième (4e), troisième (3e)
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highschool (fm 16 to 18 years of age): seconde (2nde), première (1re), terminale
Ah, this is so perfect! Everything I wanted to know about France but did not know it was there. I will be using undoubtedly this link for years to come. Thanks so much!
Thank you Sitesurf. BTW: Is post high school like the U.K. in that it is considered university? What about pre high-school? If you are aware of a link that explains the progression from say kindergarten to post high-school, I would find it to be very interesting. I know this is no related directly but would have some added value in the overall context of things.
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I believe la Seconde Guerre mondiale (world war 2) should always use second and not deuxième
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Great. Now can you tell me why? When to use seconde and when to use dieuxieme? Is there a rule/guide/grammar? Thanks in advance.
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Interesting E.Hugen. I have several dictionaries and I also went online. I can not find "Judgy" as a word in any language. Judgemental, yes. So, on this language learning course, what does "Judgy" mean please? (Doulingo requires a D in higher case by the way as on a language course proper nouns the first letter is in higher case.)
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Is there anything in this sentence that implies that "bière" only means "beer", and neither "coffin" nor "casket"? Because I answered, "A second casket?" and Duolingo marked it incorrect.
I just want to make sure I'm not missing some nuance before I report this as an answer that should be accepted. Thanks!
Just keep in mind that "une bière" to mean "casket" is rare.
We usually use "un cercueil" (coffin).
I haven't gone across having the adjective before the noun, might just be my bad, I haven't been on Duolingo for a bit. Is this just a special case with the adjective before the noun?
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Hello Julie. There is the "BANGS" guide which gives a guide to which adjectives precede the noun it modifies, it is only a guide though. B=Beauty/Ugliness, A=Age, N=Number, G=Good/Bad and S=Size. Beware! There are always exceptions for example "Grand" after the noun=Tall but before the noun=Great. Lots to memorise. One way to learn is from our mistakes, no? JJ.
You should have, since "petit, grand, nouveau, jeune, joli" are taught as early as Adjective 1, which is 10 Skills before this one.
Ah, I got mixed up with colors as adjectives. I was recently working with colors outside of Duolingo, came back and got confused. My bad! Thanks for the review :)
This goes to show how much repetition is important. May I suggest keeping a notebook, using tabs for vocabulary, grammar, new words, masculine, feminine and keeping copious notes that you review again and again and again? I do this still even though I am bilingual since 25 years. Also I say my new sentences outloud, and repeat the audio 2-10+ times to program it into my brain. Bonne chance. :)
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Yes Yaj, depending on the gender of the noun it modifies Second(e). In English it doesn't change whatever the gender of the noun it modifies. (Always Second.)
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Hiya Vyoma. Second(e) is used when only Two (or three).are available but Deuxieme is used when there is a list of many more than two.
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Seconde is used as second when the second is the last, deuxième is used when there are more. So, by using deuxième here we are admitting that we intend to drink more than 2 beers.
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Hi Aryantheace. Another Beer= In Autre Biere. What is written for this task is A Second Beer, not Another Beer
Une autre bière, not in
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This is really inappropriate many minors use this app and in every lesson alcoholic drinks are mentioned. We hope they change that soon or we may have to stop this app.
This language course is not teaching anything else than French grammar and vocabulary to anyone signing in. Parents and teachers are in charge of the rest.
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so, i realize that a twelfth beer would be excessive in this context, but don't "deuxieme" and "douzieme" sound exactly alike?
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oh, that makes sense. listening to audio recordings, i couldn't distinguish between the two. thanks so much for the clarification!
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Another beer is une autre bière, or une bière de plus, or encore une bière.
Deuxième means second. "Another" means "one more" (doesn't specify how many came before) or "different" (possibly a different brand?).
JJ, You can always go back and edit. :) Bonne journée
The correct solution should be: 'THE second beer', and no way 'A' , as in English grammar we use only definite article 'the' with the ordinal numerals .
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I think you deserve a second chance at getting that comment right, because it's just not true.
Also, "une" cannot in any circumstance be translated as "the."
When we translate from one language into another we do not transfer the grammatical rules into the other language. My point is if in French you can say ' une deuxieme biere', in English it is unacceptable to say ' a second beer'. So the solution given is not correct.
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And my point with my first sentence is to demonstrate that there is no such rule in English about indefinite articles and ordinal numerals, as you are proposing. "A second chance" is perfectly grammatical English.
As this sentence is a question (from a bartender or other person offering refills on drinks), "The second beer?" makes even less sense. An English speaker would most likely inquire "Another beer?" But in an example such as this, we are obviously meant to give a literal translation, even if it isn't the most idiomatic English.
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Is there any way to determine what is masculine or feminine? Vin is masculine, biere is feminine... Why?
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No, there isn't. Romanic languages just are that way. A lake is masculine, the sea is feminine. There's no rhyme nor reason. Gender just hes to be memorised.
Romance languages :)
