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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Don't let people trash get stuck into your life...

This is a writing practice...I'll write here for two reasons...1) It might need some revision...2) Some people here might want to think, or discuss about it....

Some angry people seem like twisted trash trucks. They cannot live a calm life, so they take trash from people and instead or canalising it properly to where it belongs, they throw it at other people. Are you getting it? Life sucks, life is a gift, life is a punishment, life is a right, life is a constant fight, life is being one with the universe, life is an agony, life is a promise of eternity. It does not matter (for my point), we are alive. We are alive.

Some people might grow up with luck, a predetermined destiny, a superior plan. Other might not. Other people could have had no choices, no future, no God. And yet, we live together. And we are expected to deal with each other. Some people are wrong, some people are right. It does not matter (for my point).

If you are angry, if you are sad, if you are hopeless, you're not alone. You are not. I am so sorry for you, for us. I truly am. These feelings are like noises inside our minds, inside our hearts. Please do not despair, but more important if you're able to, try not to hurt others, that doesn't help at all.

If you're not angry, if you are not sad, if you are not hopeless, and if you are able to; try to understand some angry people that seem twisted trash trucks. Some of them cannot help it. And more important try not to become one. Instead, try to canalize the trash people trhow at you, properly: with education, with patience, and more important, with love.

It might has been a bit long and kind of confusing. Sorry, I could really write pages and yet not getting tired. Please if you could detect my mistakes I'll be glad to hear about them. And if you want to comment about this writing I am also glad to know what you think about it.

P.S.: that analogy (of a trash truck) is not mine, and don't really remember where I read about it...

May 15, 2017

21 comentarios

Ordenado por discusión principal

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

I'll do my best to check and correct your essay.

Don't let trash people get stuck in your life... (I'm not totally sure about the "in" part, it's possible that you're right, but I mostly see essays, texts, papers, etc that use "in your life" not "into your life".

This is a writing practice...I'll write here for two reasons...1) It might need some revision...2) Some people here might want to think or discuss about it....

Some angry people seem like twisted trash trucks. They cannot live a calm life, so they take trash from people and instead of canalising it properly to where it belongs, they throw it at other people. Do you get it? Life sucks, life is a gift, life is a punishment, life is a right, life is a constant fight, life is being one within the universe, life is an agony, life is a promise of eternity. It does not matter (for my point), we are alive. We are alive.

Some people might have grown up with luck, a predetermined destiny, a superior plan. Others didn't. Other people could have had no choices, no future, no God. And yet we live together. And we are expected to deal with each other. Some people are wrong, some people are right. It does not matter (for my point).

If you are angry, if you are sad, if you are hopeless, you're not alone. You are not. I am so sorry for you, for us. I truly am. These feelings are like noises inside our minds, inside our hearts. Please do not despair, but more important, and if you're able to, try not to hurt others, that doesn't help at all.

If you're not angry, if you are not sad, if you are not hopeless, and if you are able to, try to understand some angry people that seem twisted trash trucks. Some of them cannot help it. And more important, try not to become one. Try to canalize the trash people throw at you properly: with education, with patience, and more important, with love.

It may have been a bit long and kind of confusing. Sorry, I could really write pages and yet not getting tired. Please if you could detect my mistakes, I'd be glad to hear about them. And if you want to comment about this writing I am also glad to know what you think about it.

P.S.: that analogy (of a trash truck) is not mine, and I don't really remember where I read about it...

May 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Well, thanks body...I won't change nothing, in order to see my mistakes...some of the typos were already corrected while I was editing, though...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

I won't change anything

I see. The draft I was trying to correct had those typos, so I thought it would be nice to also point them out, but yeah, you seem to have taken care of those and I didn't get to see the new draft until now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

nothing sounded rude...LOL...

....had those...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

nothing sounded rude...LOL...

hm? what do you mean by that?

....had those...?

Yes, I'm saying that the previous draft (the one I evaluated) had them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

I mean...I don't think is grammatically wrong...but sounded rude...my reply...

And you wrote...

...I see. The draft I was trying to correct had those typos...

Was that a typo, or I need to review some serious stuff?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Sorry...now I get it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

the draft had typos...I somehow didn't get it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

Your reply didn't sound rude to me, it's all good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Well, thanks Oscar...your review was truly helpful..to be honest...I had a "0)" reason to write this post...earlier, a girl posted something, probably meaningless...you and other user replied with corrections. It's ok to correct people, and it's bad to ignore people's mistakes...But somehow I saw this: A twelve year old girl trying to communicate (poorly, I get it, but trying)...and two guys replying coldly with corrections...no hello, not try to "reply" the message, and saddly merely pointing out mistakes, without further encourage to improve or even something else but corrections...and the girl deleted the post, ashamed, I guess, and probably with fear to try it again, thinking she is an idiot (probably)....Well, it might not had been your or the other user's intention, but that just might have happened...I wrote, because that's how I manage anger and pain...

Feel free to correct this as well...I truly don't mind being corrected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

Now I see

...and two guys replying coldly with corrections [...] Well, it might not be your or the other user's intention...

Sorry if I sounded rude or cold, like you said I didn't mean it (and most likely the other guy didn't mean it either), that's sometimes the way I make my corrections, and most of people seem perfectly fine with how I review. I wouldn't call it "cold", but maybe "a serious and honest way to say it".

I believe the way I reply sometimes matches with who I am in real life (I'm serious, I tend not to go all "friendly" because there are some people who like to toy with you, but that doesn't mean I will be rude with you or that you deserve the worst from me (of course not)...).

And this also helps me to see what kind of people I'm dealing with. There are people who like constructive criticism, others who like to feel superior to others... and I sometimes like to think the way I reply is the very best way to do so, if you are the first person, you are all good and that means we will get along without problems; but if you are the second one... "dude, consider what I'm pointing out, stop believing you are perfect in all ways" and no like "lol look you suck, you should probably get off your computer and do something better" just like people tend to say.

A twelve year girl trying to communicate...

Being honest, I didn't know we were talking about a 12 years old girl, I don't know how you got that information, maybe it was on her profile, but if that's the case, I normally don't tend to read profiles, so yeah I was completely unaware.

Now, you may actually disagree with me, but young and normal teens are the two perfect kind of people who should start dealing with criticism, and not seeing it always as a bad thing.

...no hello

I'm used not to say "hello" all the time on forums, not even on chats. I know a simple "hello" can mark the difference between "friendly" and "not nice", but I just feel I'm not born to do it. And I think that doesn't make me a rude person.

...and the girl deleted the post, ashammed I guess and probably with fear to try it again, thinking she is an idiot (probably)...

First of all, the girl received the other guy's criticism well, so I thought she was cool and she could deal with some more criticism.

Like you said, she deleted the post (it isn't on my "following posts" anymore), but it didn't took me more than 15 minutes to see that she re-posted it with all the corrections me and the other guy pointed out.

And okay, I'm not saying that she wouldn't have thought of herself as an idiot, but like I said above, my intention wasn't that, and I don't think she is an idiot (obviously).

-

wow I just wrote a whole essay, sorry if this is long for you lol, but I hope you understand I wasn't trying to be rude. "Trash people" do have "reasons" (I put that between quotation marks because I believe those reasons aren't enough to justify someone's actions) to be angry all the time, but no, I don't have any reason to download my hate on someone who doesn't even deserve to deal with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Well, you seem a reasonable guy...First, thanks again for your corrections...now, I will ask you something...From now on, whenever you correct someone who didn't ask for corrections, please consider; a) To greet first ; b) to establish that a review wasn't asked, but it's necessary and useful....You see, without context, those things are really important. We cannot know what's the other person like or what is his/her situation...So, to treat them equally friendly, will decrease the risk of hurting someone...

By the way, I am not the kind of guy who likes to feel superior to others...because I know I can be wrong...I just like to see different perspectives...and whenever I feel something bothers me, I just try to write a polite opinion, or suggestion about it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

You are making it sound like if people always have to ask for corrections so others can make them. Some forget to ask, while others are probably unaware of how a word is spelled. The second case is probably the most common one (and probably the real reason why I make these kind of corrections), so what I believe is that you should always tell people when they are making a mistake so they can avoid doing it again, even if they are not necessarily asking for it.

I get what you're saying by "establishing that a review wasn't asked, but it's necessary and useful", and I mean, it does make it sound polite and friendly; but it doesn't help the problem anyways. People will still find your comment as a good or bad thing, even if you go all direct and say "I know you didn't ask for this, but it's "x" not "y"" or making it feel like the other has to apologize you for doing it: "I'm so sorry that I have to correct your mistakes, I know you made this post with the best of the intentions, and I highly respect those intentions, but as a learner who had to struggle with native english speakers who had bad grammar, thus worsening my learning process, I, with the bottom of my heart, ask you politely not to write like this "x" rather write it like it should be written: "y", thanks for understanding and again, sorry if I disturbed you" (okay, not like that, but you get my point, right?).

The former is basically the same as deleting the first eight words. What's left? The way I make my corrections. And since it's the same, it's people choice to see it as "this guy is right, I appreciate that he pointed it out" or see it as "wow I mean, nobody asked you, I don't care how I should spell it, leave me alone you idiot".

About the latter... no way I'm doing it lol. I mean, why should I ask for others forgivness if what I'm doing will actually benefit them more than me?

And about the "to greet first" part, like I said, I'm not used to greet people, and I don't see any real reason to do it. If we meet IRL then sure I will obviously greet you, but on a forum it looks so odd (at least for me). And again, this doesn't necessarily make me a bad guy.


Again, I just wrote a whole book (even though I didn't mean to do it lol), I'm sorry if replied with a response so big, but I basically want to make sure you understand that it isn't me the problem but anybody that gets offended by just simple corrections.

It doesn't matter how you say it ("coldly" or friendly), people will still find it helpful or annoying.

Also lol, it looks like we made this thing a big deal even though it shouldn't have to be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

I get you're point...I'll try to describe mine in a different way...this is no an intent to "win a discussion" or try to be "superior"...for me it's a debate, about different perspectives...


Please imagine these alternative realities....

Case a)...You, do as usual. Don't greet, correct without being asked to (Again, it's not a bad thing, I get it, but others might not)...What would be the result : Statistically some people won't care, others might appreciate your correction, some other might feel offended (again, the fact you and I understand it's not bad to correct people, but important; does not imply other people get it), and worst of all the weaker ones will end hurted ( and believe you me, these people exist)

Case b)...You greet and correct equally friendly to others...No matter if they are irresponsible writers, if they make mistakes by ignorance or costume, or are still learning and dare to try writing some stuff....no matter who you correct....Statiscally near to 0.0001 could ever be hurted...

My point is: It's not about good or bad, but the way that you as a person by adding some words (that for you might not be important or might not be your style) decrease the chance of hurting someone....

And what if the people I treat friendly are "jerks", one might ask?....That should not really matter as long as you don't become one...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

Case a and case b have a point in common: hurting others. Which I will be calling it a "flaw". Here is why:

It doesn't matter if you speak friendly (or "friendly", the concept is actually ambiguous since you are the one who determines what's "friendly") or if you like to hurt people, you will still be seen or taken as one or the other.

The one to judge you isn't you or a third person, is the person you are speaking with. And that person could be a strong or a weak person.

Being weak is like the starting point to later become a strong person. Like in a game when your character only has a red coat and a wooden sword. Weak people are people who get offended by everything, that everybody is against them. And it doesn't matter if you start to cry over it or if you answer back with all of your hatred, you are still one. You can't become strong if you don't know how it was to be weak.

In the real world there are carpers ("criticones" or how you call them: "trash people") and critics (who have some experience and point out your mistakes so you can improve them). A strong person won't be affected by either, but a weak person will be. It doesn't matter if you go all case a or case b, since the weak person will think of themselves as an idiot for making that mistake, and in some cases consider you rude or "the one who laughs at everybody's mistakes".

However, weak people have the right, or I should call it obligation, to prepare themselves, visit psychilogists, talk to their parents, asking for help, think of their actions with thoroughness... so they could begin to differenciate between carpers and critics. Other thing I should mention: critics don't have the obligation to explain how to do something, just to comment on it (or, in this case of pointing out the typos, talk to and treat you how you want them to do it).

So this is why I call "decrease the chance of hurting someone" (in this context) a flaw in your argument. It's not my responsability to make them feel amazing, it's their job to become strong and find my opinion helpful.

I would believe you if I was being rude and I wasn't aware of this (thinking that I am perfect), but I just recently asked people who are perfectly fine with corrections (in an open space, not stopping anyone from giving their opinion) if the way I say stuff sounds mean, and they all replied with a "no".


Now some stuff I like to point out:

the weaker ones will end hurted ( and believe you me, these people exist)

Dude, everybody was, is or will be weak at some point, me included. Reason why I'm still discussing about this essay is because I have the experience of some several parts of my life feeling completely weak and demotivated everyday (I wouldn't call this depression, depression is a mental sickness that makes you feel sad for no reason most of the time, and you treat it with medicine). Wish it wasn't only my mom who took care of motivating me, but most of my won battles were because of me, so I believe people can overcome their fights by themselves. It's hard (and harder if you don't have anybody), but gratifying once you have enough self-confidence to contiue fighting.

this is no an intent to "win a discussion" or try to be "superior"

It isn't my case either, although my point still stands, and I will defend it if I have to. I don't care whoever wins because I don't see this like a competition, it's more like an exchange of thoughts.

That should not really matter as long as you don't become one...

I wouldn't, in my life, look to become one.

Like I said above, everybody was, is or will be part of a weak mental state. Some people choose the easy thing: becoming addicted at something, feeling superior, trying to downgrade someone who is dealing with it... it's so sad most of people do this, but the worst part isn't for you (a victim of them), but for them when they get to know that's not how you deal with a weak mental state.

Some people tried to downgrade me just because they were weak and paid attention to what their feelings were telling them. For people like that (and my own way of thinking, which was a pessimistic version of the reality), I became weak too.

And now, that I'm hopefully overcoming this, I realize how I got to that state. If I were to make others feel bad on purpose, I would feel like if I was my own attacker, and that doesn't convince me. Nobody, not even me, deserves to deal with others' feelings.

Now, and just to reiterate, being critical isn't being a "trash person" on purpose, I'm just trying to help people with what they need to know. That those people get offended by my criticism is another (different) thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Well, well, well...I don't know about you, but I'm enjoying this...practicing my english, trying to express ideas, to rephrase them, to explore new words and concepts...Thanks brother...We certainly have lived different experiences, nurtured from life in our own unique way, and built our own personality and perspective...That's totally ok and as it must be...Reading your replies is not different than reading a good book, for me...And writing to you is no different that writing for myself...For me it's almost mathematical, this debate...It's like trying to resolve an equation...Although we both have twenty four hours, we were born once, and not too long from now we will be as well gone, we are different "things"...trying to arrange variables, parameters, trying to agree in constants, and redefining values...it's fun...and thus...I'll throw a new light to this issue we are talking about...this time in three parts, ...

I) Assumption.- We cannot qualify, understand or judge "entirely" other people's lives/behaviour/thinking...The most we can do is making reasonable assumptions, that will be in nearly 100% biased by our own developed criteria...Therefore, we couldn't know for sure the impact we make in other people's lives/behaviour/thinking...and again we are limited to make reasonable assumptions...

II) Defining the problem.- Let's Assume my "problem" is "hurting someone"...we can agree the ultimate power capable of letting this happen is the person itself I'm afraid to hurt...We can agree it "might" not be a problem, but we're working under the assumption it is, otherwise there is no point at all...But the key word here is possibility, since we cannot know for sure the impact of our actions...So, Is it necessary a "change"(already described) in the way you correct people?

III) Incremental hypothetical results.- "Damn if you do, damn if you don't" fits perfectly and it's handy to reasure our thinking and decision making under a uncertain problem, when we don't want to further analyze it..Not this time...Although we cannot know for sure the impact of our actions...we do know there will be an impact...and only one ongoing result...Let's add a change to what I do and things might or might not improve...Don't add any change, things can remain equal, or even improve, we couldn't tell...Bur there is something we can tell, the incremental results of the first escenario are more likely to be better than the second one...That's a likely incremental positive result...now, if we add the change...What are the likely incremental negative results in each escenario?...I cannot see one, maybe I'm biased...but let's suppose there is one, Can it be worst than the escenario of no making any change...Again, I may be biased, you would decide...

I cannot nor I have to change your way of thinking...I just ask you to reconsider my petition, one last time...And a simple "no, thanks" will be enough...Of course I'd enjoy further debate, but If the answer is still "no, thanks" I will understand, because I respect your thinking process, and I don't condemn it at all...As I said, I just love to see different perspectives...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

No, thanks... at least let me say why... by bringing up what I had previously said.

This is pretty much a summary of what I have been saying the whole time, so if you haven't paid attention to everything I wrote, the following list makes my point simpler to understand (I will be using "you" all the time, I'm used to write like that and the message is for everybody, not just you (also, you may not be having the same problem, but if you do, make sure to read this with your full concentration)).

Let's see, reasons why I don't accept to change the way I write:

1) The purpose of my reviews is to help you, not to look for a friend or an enemy. Having said that:

• 1.1 I wouldn't be acting like a "trash person" and make others feel bad. I'm not that kind of person.

•1.2 But that doesn't mean I will be talking to you like if I was desperate for having friends, or like if I knew you before and have great memories with you. That's not how friendship works.

•1.3 Still, if you don't want to be my friend but you are looking for some more affection from me, don't. It's so unnatural on me. I'm not that open, nor that friendly, and I don't know you. Who are you to demand my full affection?

2) Most of people don't see my reviews as something rude.

•2.1 Asked people who are okay with criticism, everybody replied with a no.

•2.2 Reason why I only asked people who like or are fine with criticism is because they are able to talk and act in a rational way. Emotional people wouldn't give a chance to think it first, if they had something against me, they would most likely try to make me look as a terrible person (even though I am not).

3) You are the one responsible to extract the juice from the lemon. Not me.

•3.1 I can accept the fact that you didn't want to screw it up, but you still made a mistake and someone pointed it out. What would you say/do? 1) "Oh okay, I failed at trying to do it right, but I will make sure to make it don't happen again, thanks for your commentary" or 2) "I guess you don't have a life, go find one and leave me alone".

•3.2 My way of reviewing isn't different from the others. Others can be more friendly (the one you would like to see me practicing), others more serious, but the thing is that you are the one to decide how helpful it was. Even with a friendlier review, people can be offended.

4) I just don't have responsability on you.

•4.1 Being honest, I don't care if you print my photo and burn it (after all, it's just the Duo's default profile pic with a darker shade of blue) just because my review was "rude", as long as you don't call for a mod and play as the victim. Because something I hate are people who play the role of the victim when they aren't. And I know the case of someone who was going to be unfairly banned because the mod was all emotional.

•4.2 Control your emotions, it's not my battle, it's yours to win.

•4.3 Yes, I could make it easier for you by talking to you like parents do to children (with all the "aw you're so cute, you will be successful in the future"), but I ask you: Do you really want me to treat you like that despite the fact that there are critics way more serious and carpers? How will you later deal with that?

•4.4 For a weak person, I believe the way I write my criticism is the perfect way to demonstrate you that "not everybody is attacking you, you are making that up" and also "Here, you are wrong, but I'm telling you how to correct it, so others, who are worse than me, don't laugh at you".


I'm sorry if you spent a lot of time trying to "open my eyes", at the end I didn't change to the way you wanted me to, but I have enough reasons to defend myself, justifying my way of speaking and telling you that you are the small percentage of people who disagree with it.

I highly respect your way of thinking, it can benefit some but still affect others (yes, it's possible), it's just that your way of thinking doesn't suit me, and yet, that doesn't mean the way I think is wrong.

I think we really took this matter in a serious way, it's possible that the girl we were talking about has already forgotten of what had happened (maybe not); and I don't think this could have ended in a bad way, but the starting point is too exaggerated: writting an essay about understanding trash people but not becoming one, just because two guys decided to point typos out, and assuming that they were carpers who had a bad life, reason they had to download their hatred and "attack" an inocent girl.

Maybe there's something else I'm missing out, something between lines. Don't get mad if I ask you this, but, do you feel reflected on her? Did you hate being critized by people like me and think people will suffer from the same stuff you suffered if people like me are out there? you can reply if you want.

I would like to end this discussion not because I don't like to talk to you (ofc not), but I just feel that, if we continue any further, we will most likely repeat ourselves once again, not adding anything new.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Hello again...No...I don't get mad if you ask that..Because, to be fair, I live a kind of an insane life already...And, your assumption about me is partially right...

I reflected on her as I reflect on bullies, on bastards, on nice people, or even on what some consider "normal people"...I like to think different, even if that mean I may eventually become identityless (yeahp, it's not a word...but you get the idea)...

I don't remember ever hating someone, set aside strangers...I suffer, yes...I feel anger, yes...I feel terror, yes...I fell madness, yes...I forget, luckily yes...

And I don't think people will suffer like I did/am...I know they did, are and will suffer all around the globe, 24/7...I know it...I don't need to know them IRL, I don't need to see them suffering, I don't need to hear them...I know they are...And this is something like a fifth sense in my frickin' nature...First, it manifested as a recurrent dream, that I would later know was a premonition of an event that changed my view of life, people and the world.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oscar921110

Okay I got it, sorry in advance if you found my question personal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LuisGalvez69697

Great essay. But where are the idioms :) ? i.e: in the depths of

Good job!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S_e_r_9_1_0

Thanks Luis...The idioms...I won't lie to you...Lately, I've been juggling between learning german, portuguese and music theory, and kind of neglected what once was my favorite english topic...I enjoyed and appreciated your contributions, though...

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