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  5. "Vous et moi marchons."

"Vous et moi marchons."

Translation:You and I walk.

March 3, 2013

58 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EStyrke

I'm not a native English speaker. I wrote "you and me are walking", and was marked wrong... Correct or not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JSmolders

I am a native English speaker, and a linguist. "You and me" is perfectly fine English... the problem is that the prescriptive grammarians and the educational institutions are trying to deny the fact that the rest of us use it, accept it, and wish the "you and I" police would go live on an island by themselves ;) .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

Native English speaker and teacher. You and me is perfectly fine in some situations but not in others. Just take out the other person/people to work it out, e.g.:

  • You and I go to the shops - I go to the shops (correct)

  • You and me go to the shops - Me go to the shops (incorrect)

  • He will ask you and I later - he will ask I later (incorrect)

  • He will ask you and me later - He will ask me later (correct)

Having said that, I am not a prescriptive grammarian and have no personal issues with people saying "you and me" when it is not strictly correct to do so, fundamentally that is how language changes after all and nobody can stop that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kacenka9

Thank you! Never heard that explanation. Sometimes I feel like Duolingo is testing our English. And there are a lot of us that are not English native speakers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimmieFelidae

As a non-native English speaker I find myself really cautious when translating into English that happens to avoid a bunch of nuances between languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EStyrke

Thank you, that is very informative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

Glad to help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rafaelbuzin

Amazing explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nessihix

what about ..... you and i are going to the shops - i are going to the shops?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jiggawhy

(You and I) are going to the shops. We are going to the shops. I am going to the shops.

Cf. (Wrong): I are going to the shops. Me are going to the shops. Me am going to the shops.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kcneuro39

You sure about that? Just in the sentence he tried I seem to have found a flaw in that system:

:: You and me are walking -- Me are walking. (incorrect) :: You and I are walking -- I are walking (still incorrect)

If you take off the "You and" it doesn't work regardless of whether one uses 'me' or 'I,' so how can the rule be that you take off the "You and" to determine if it is grammatically sound?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P-Brain

Good observation. When taking out the "you and" component of the sentence, it's also necessary to change the verb conjugation to singular (eg: 'am', rather than 'are')

Therefore, "You and I are walking" would be more accurately compared to "I am walking"

This wasn't obvious from Wunel's example above, since the verb 'go' is the same in singular and plural. This is generally true for most present tense English verbs, but not for French verbs (which is why we use 'marchons' in this example, rather than 'marche')


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeardropExplodes

Respectfully you are wrong on this as taking out the "you and" is irrelevant as you would have to change the conjugation whether you use 'me' or 'I'. You and me is a way of expressing 'we' in the same way that 'He' or 'She' could be used instead of the person's name the only difference being that 'you and me' and 'you and I' already use pronouns. Both mean 'we'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jackswiggett

"You and me" is definitely considered incorrect grammar - people say it, but certainly if you were to use it in a speech, an essay, or even a semi-formal letter it would be viewed as wrong. Wunel explained the correct usage in any sort of formal situation. Personally most of the people I know would say "you and I" in this situation regardless.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annag

Yes, but some people would say "you and I" whether it were correct or not, just because they know that sometimes it's correct, and it sounds haughtier. This probably means that the language is changing towards "I" being a formal-self, and "me" being an informal-self, in either "you and I" or "you and me" (the formal or informal we).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikitakimba

Surely then, it's only a matter of time before we all start saying "I saw youse goin' down the shops this arvo" and "Innit great y'all like campin'?"

I do wonder if our language changes because people know the correct format and choose not to use it, or because we can't be bothered learning it to begin with.

I suppose that as we do with other things, we sometimes end up catering to the lowest common denominator, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

Just keep in mind that there is no inherent benefit in highly structured and unchangeable language, lower class language usage is just as effective at conveying their meanings and that is the fundamental function of language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikitakimba

Sorry - I should have been a bit clearer. I agree that language should not be incapable of change, and should support effective communication. Sometimes though, a relaxation of some of those rules makes communication difficult, just like it has in this and other threads where we argue what is "technically" correct, as opposed to what "most/some/a lot of" people actually say.

Anyway, best not to get bogged down in that here. I only have another 270 or so lessons before I've finished my tree, so I had best get on with it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thenoblesunfish

1) In spoken or casual usage, of course "you and me" is fine in this sentence, as there is no ambiguity of meaning. In formal, written English, it is obviously and unambiguously incorrect. 2) Especially when trying to learn another (formal, written) language using a set of rules, it pays to remember the distinction between a subject and object. 3) Judgements aside, using the rules correctly is used to convey seriousness in English writing, so someone learning the language benefits from knowing them!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JazzyFrench

It depends on where the verb is located. In front of the verb, "I". Behind, "me". This assumes the sentence is not inverted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hannrkelley

Agreed. You and I is right, and sounds nicer, but you and me is so ingrained into everyday English it feels like people will have forgotten "you and I" in a hundred years!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zudeet

In English, "I" is the first-person subject pronoun, while "me" is the first-person object pronoun. Since the pronoun functions as the subject in this sentence, "I" is the correct choice.

That said, when there is a compound subject that includes a first-person pronoun, people will often use "me" in the subject position, but only when the subject is compound. We would never say, for example, "Me is walking to the store," but we often say "You and me are walking to the store." It is not technically correct, and most people wouldn't use "me" this way in written English, but in spoken English (in the United States anyway), it is becoming standard and no longer sounds incorrect to most of us.

In fact, it is also becoming standard to use the subject pronoun "I" in the object position, but again only in compounds. So, we wouldn't say "Give it to I," but you will often hear "Give it to Mary and I" (technically, it should be "Give it to Mary and me"). You might also hear "Give Mary and I the book," though never "Give I the book." This still sounds incorrect to me, but people say it all the time, so I guess I'll have to get used to it. As others have noted, languages change.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steviechy

I am a native English speaker and I wrote the same thing, grammatically "you and me" is not TAUGHT AS correct however "you and me" is used about as often as "you and I", I guess it is more conversational English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sa_mills

"you and me" is perfectly correct as the object of a sentence, but not as the subject, as it is here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annag

"You and me" is taught as being correct in some situations, but incorrect in others. Here, it would be taught as being incorrect, but, as you point out, it's fine conversationally in this context. I think that's (i mean, its acceptability here is) because "me" is separated from the action it's doing, so it seems more like a possible object. Dunno, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/asdellaporta

Still, it's not clear to me why in French one would use the accusative form of the pronoun when it's being used as the subject of the sentence. Can anyone explain please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/asdellaporta

The thing is, we are supposed to be learning the correct French grammar. I am wondering why, in a correct French sentence, one would have to use "moi" where a nominative pronoun is called for. Although in English some people mistakenly use "me" where they ought to use "I," it is a mistake; it is NOT correct. Why is "moi" correct here instead of "I"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lolo5lolo

I wonder the same..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gadamico

It seems we still don't have an answer to why it is permissible (in French!) to use 'moi' instead of 'je' in subject position. Is this just the same sort of phenomenon that's happened in English over the years? Could we say here: "Vous et je marchons"? (or "Je et vous marchons"?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stevenydc

I have the same question. I don't understand how people could get stuck on the english part but have no problem with the french part lol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lenvm

I also found this weird. Since I couldn't find an answer in this thread to why "moi" could be accusative, I looked elsewhere on Duolingo. There's a good discussion of a similar example here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/240036.

Apparently these are called "disjunctive" phrasings, where an object pronoun is used just where we'd expect a subject pronoun. So instead of saying "elle et j'aimons les fruits," you would say "Elle et moi[, nous] aimons les fruits." ("Nous" is an optional appositive here.)

For more, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_personal_pronouns#Disjunctive_pronouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrnpcFTMarkRMOwl

Awesome work. French shore iz a funy langwich. Must be the j' thang.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Budahazy

I wrote in my previous similar sentence that there are emphatic pronouns as me. Translation isn't I but ME English emphatic pronouns are: ME =moi YOU =toi HIM =lui HER=elle US =nous YOU=vous THEM =eux/elles

.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/O_sham

You are right about the translation of the words, but when translating we should consider the whole sentence, not only the meanings of the separate words. In this case it is just not correct to say in English "You and ME are walking". Apparently in French it is...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annag

I'm not clear when to use "moi" and when to use "je". Like, I think it's "j'écris", but "elle et moi, nous écrivons", but I have no idea why.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JazzyFrench

Finally, a question related to French! I wish I knew the answer as I would have thought Je in this case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikitakimba

I think the above comments were all indirectly related to French. If you don't understand English grammar, it sometimes makes it quite difficult to understand how best to translate and/or understand another language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/billy98111

Should the "s" sound be pronounced in "Vous" since "et" starts with a vowel?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Valuk1
  • 2271

I was wondering the same: there should be a "z" sound as "vous" transitions into "et", but Duo seems to explicitly avoid it. Anyone can explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a-blair

Why marchons, and not marchez?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Muzorewi1984

marchez is second person plural (you), here we want first person plural (we)

"you and me, (we), walk"

"vous et moi (nous) marchons"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

That was very helpful, thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/desrain

why marcheons, not marchent


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

Because of the collective group involved. They walk is ils marchent but you + I = we. We is nous and it is nous marchons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/desrain

thank you. so if I is included in the group the group becomes we?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

I was unclear, I am sorry. I meant to convey that if you and I took a walk together we would say that, you and I, "WE walk" or, in French, vous et moi, "NOUS marchons". The "we/nous" is not stated directly in this sentence but you conjugate the verb as though it was. A quick example of this:

  • Une femme, elle marche
  • Un homme et sa fille, ils marchent
  • Ton ami et toi, vous marchez
  • Tu et moi, nous marchons

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P-Brain

Thanks for the helpful examples, but why wouldn't it be 'Ton ami et toi, vous marchez'?

Also, could we say 'Tu et moi, on marche'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

Well spotted on that first point, I have corrected it. As for the second, I suspect it would be conjugated as "on marchons" since on is a colloquial form of nous but perhaps it is colloquially conjugated as well. I'm not confident enough to say more here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/charlie.ng2

'On' always uses the third person singular verb form even when it means "we." So it should be "on marche."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annag

"on marche" = "one walks". This is different than "we walk", but might be acceptable in French. Dunno. (sorry!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LarsX

How would you say, "Let's you and I walk?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElizabethGosling

what is wrong with 'you and me walk"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lafayste

the sound seems wrong here. I can't hear the "s" at the end of "vous" which should be pronounced if next letter is vowel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RashedKhan

Why not 'tu et je' instead of 'tu et moi' and please explain what kind of object pronoun is moi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ennada

can it be vous et je marchons?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IterMercator

Clearing this up for people:

The reason "are" is used is because for the verb "to be", are is used for plural pronouns, e.g we are, they are (the reason "you" has "are" is because in Middle English, when "thou" was used, it was used for singular "you", and "you" was used for plural but like the French, plural "you" was the formal way of addressing someone, and after a while the English dropped "thou")

The reason "I" is used is because of the grammar behind cases and pronouns: like German(English is Germanic, from Anglo-Saxons) with "ich"(nominative), "mich"(accusative), "mir"(dative), and "mein"(genitive),

English has "i"(nominative), "me"(accusative / dative), and "my"(genitive)

Anyway, because of that, the reason "i" is used instead of "me" is because "i" is the subject of a sentence, aka the one doing the verb, and "me" is the one getting the verb done to them(object). This generally isn't a problem for English because of how well you can understand the meaning of a sentence, I could say "Me like she" and you would understand it being "I like her".

However, if I was to write this in German as

„Mich mag sie”

It would mean "She likes me" with emphasis on "me"(kinda like someone saying " She likes ME").

So the result from this: You can say "you and me walk" as a casual thing, but if you are talking formally to a person, a Grammar justice warrior, or a German learning English, you are better off speaking the correct cases for pronouns.

TL:DR : "you" is actually plural, "me" is wrong unless you're a dog being taken on a walk, and kinda like grammerical gender, English has rules, but nobody bothers to apply them

(I should note, i'm on mobile, so sorry if the formatting is eye bleach worthy, just imagine paragraph breakers if the formatting messes up ;) )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelindriaT

This is ridiculous. We are told that in the present tense it could be 'are walking' or 'walk'. So what is the problem? I wrote, you and I are walking. And I would expect even you and 'me' would work as well, given the 'relaxation' of the English language in more recent years.

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