https://www.duolingo.com/Andrew_Crouse

IOS Health Bars - Please Remove this.

First I would Like to say the I love duo lingo and have enjoyed learning a new language. I have been using it casually for 3 years now, but I am getting close to finishing the German tree and now have a goal of finishing it. The new Clubs feature is great, nice addition.

So I log in today on the IOS version and there is now a health bar where if you make 5 mistakes, you are locked out and can't continue.

This is absolutely horrible. Why are you trying to dictate how much time I spend in a session and which sessions I work on. If I make 5 mistakes in a particular area, how is going back other topics going to help me on the one I made mistakes in? I need to keep working where the mistakes were made so I can learn. This is completely backwards!

I wanted to sit down this afternoon and do a few modules, but No, I'm locked out, because I made a few mistakes on a brand new module with words I have not even learned yet. Give me break.

People make mistakes, that is how we learn. Don't punish us for making mistakes, who cares if it takes 10, 20, 30 mistakes, people learn differently. On new modules your going to make lots of mistakes.

Sure, I can understand having limits if you are doing some sort of test after you are taught something and are tested on it after, but duolingo does not really work like that, you are thrown into new topics without being taught anything (especially on IOS) and you learn by doing.

The game was perfectly fine before this update. The decaying modules are perfect, it makes sure you stay fresh on different topics that we all forget over time. I plead you to take this crap out of the application and let people learn on their own time and their own pace.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel very strongly against this.

Thanks for Listening

May 27, 2017

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/illustrium
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I wholeheartedly agree with this message; I haven't yet been locked out of anything yet, but I feel like being locked out of what you need more practice on is the opposite of what is necessary.

May 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
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FYI, you'll find:

  • here a[n older] discussion about the same subject: "Please get rid of "health" it is HORRIBLE".
  • here another one few hours later: "Please remove the Hearts system."
May 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PotatoSanta
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Are they really just going to ignore all the complaints about the recent changes and leave it to moderators to clean up the forums all day?

May 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/duonks
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No matter how counterproductive this is for learning, we'd better get used to it as the stats obviously say it brings in more cash... There's no other plausible reason for it! This is of course fair enough and absolutely understandable, but I do wish at least duo would come clean with us and not add insult to injury by pretending it's for our own good :-/

I can only hope they will fine tune the parameters a bit... One step was to disable health for courses still in beta. Another might be to reduce the time lock, to increase tolerance for first time errors, or to allow at least a second chance at a new lesson, for example. From what I've seen so far, at least with my current settings, multiple attempts at testing out of a lesson are still allowed and don't affect health (as long as you haven't already run out!)... not an ideal way to learn, but hey duo is still free so we mustn't complain ;-)

If I do get too frustrated it'll be over to Android or the web for me, or over to the missus' iPad, which fortunately had auto-update turned off! :-)

May 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/temacube
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If you pretty much already know the language you can google questions or would be answers or use google translate and power on. For new languages outside of beta iOS is just about useless. It being broken is a feature not a bug. The idea is to inculcate so much frustration and helplessness you'll queue to unbreak the product. The more you complain the more they know the plan is working. The educational mission statement of the company has been compromised. I've contributed a few bucks here and there to duo and I feel regardless of what happens I've already gotten my money's worth, but I feel terrible for the course contributors. Presumedly they bought into the idea they were going to actually help people.

May 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/KenBookmye

Go to iOS app store and rate it a one with a note that it's specifically because of the health bar

May 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
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You may be interested by Luis'(*) answer about "will doing that make Duo change its mind?" in this other discussion.
Namely, Luis's 3 answers (up to now):

(*) Duolingo's CEO

May 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/KenBookmye

Yep, but what would you expect him to say? Duo clearly will do at least the test regardless of the results, but they aren't going to encourage people to complain. It doesn't mean they won't be swayed by hard numbers.

May 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
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but what would you expect him to say?

For example the same without explaining why it'll not make them change their minds. Namely, explaining (again) that they look (only) at their own metrics and that they took their decision to roll it our to all iOS users after evaluating it for months.


It doesn't mean they won't be swayed by hard numbers.

Personally, I don't think at all they will. Why? Because they have been testing it for already 8 months and rolled it our because their test were conclusive(*).
And since I don't remember any case, since 2013, where they reversed(**) a change due to users' feedbacks(***), I don't expect they will in this case neither.

(*) and in case it'd be a lie they invented to justify the release/their decision (what I don't think it is) then the fact they would have invented it would even more suggest that they definitely decided they'll not "go back" on that.

(**) except for "too bugged"

(***) but only when their reading of their own metrics showed them that the change was bad (to whatever their definition of bad is (for what? for who?).


Well, all that is of course my personal "vision" about the question "will they change things based on something else than their own metrics?". ;)

May 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/KenBookmye

You may be right but they shade statistics to support whatever they want like everyone else. Less than 1/10 of 1% of users used immersion. Well heck I couldn't get immersion so of course I didn't use it. What I can say with certainty is that the day my app has health is my last day on duo. There are numerous other platforms that I don't like as much but adding health changes that balance dramatically. Had they rewritten the presentation of materials to work in conjunction with health ie introduce the vocabulary before the lesson so mistakes weren't a given I might have not felt that way but I'm sure I won't be missed and I'm equally sure I can learn without Duo

May 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sebastianx

Not spending your money on "Health" will convince him probably. I mentioned in another thread (that got deleted) that DuoLingo should provide extra things of value people will be happy to pay for. Bullying people in order to extract money from them will result in little money in the bank and lots of people that are annoyed.

(Edit:) A second thought; if DuoLingo need extra funding, why not add a "Donate" button to see who will donate some money?

June 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/zekecoma

Use the desktop or mobile browser. It doesn't have that garbage on there and not dumbed down.

May 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/maroloccio
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Duolingo, please remove unwelcome features.

May 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/basil59

I agree just came across it out of the blue now cannot carry on using my iPad I don't want it please take it away

May 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Spooky_Noodle
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I completely agree with this. The health feature is doing more harm than good and I've only ever seen people complaining about it. This app is very slowly starting to go downhill.

May 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Alan..G
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The app has been going downhill for over a year. Initially you would only ever write your answers, without any boxes to choose from with different words on them. These nearly made me quit altogether when introduced, because it was just far too easy and I wasn't learning anything

June 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Spooky_Noodle
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I got the app way after I started on the computer, so I never knew it without those boxes. I kind of assumed they had always been there, but I do agree that they make it really easy.

June 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/BLRT2000
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So many people hate this new system, I'm surprised they're still planning on going through with it.

July 5, 2017
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