https://www.duolingo.com/PVLSANS

*Miesiący* as Genitive Plural

Cześć!

I have a question about the form "miesiący": Why is it not declined like "prysznic", "widelec" or "lipiec"? Their stems all end in c, I do not see the reason for "miesiąc" not to become "miesiąców" as do all of his friends.

Dziękuję! Tarek

June 3, 2017

7 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

Frankly, often there's no better answer than "That's just the way it is". I mean, someone can come here with knowledge of phonological processes, but the question is if it would really be helpful, and not rather just 'complicated' ;)

Let's think of other nouns ending with -ąc

zając (a hare) -> Gen. plural zajęcy

Aaaand actually I cannot think of anything else right now. But the pattern is the same here.

June 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PVLSANS

Yes, this is already really helpful for me.

June 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

One similar example, although with an a bit different ending:

pieniądze (or even singular 'pieniądz') -> Genitive plural "pieniędzy"

June 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Daniel_Devac

Cześć Tarek!

I believe that you have a typo, it's "miesięcy" (note the ę instead of ą).

I'm not really good with grammar, but as a Polish native no less, I can tell you one thing: our language is full of exceptions and even rules that take the form of exceptions to exceptions. It was frustrating back when I was in school and is without the shadow of the doubt frustrating to foreigners interested in the language.

It's pretty much a non-answer, but I hope that someone more knowledgeable will come along and give us both a lesson. ;)

Z wyrazami szacunku, Daniel

June 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Okcydent

Hard to answer in general. Some thoughts:

1) Miesiąc is an old name for the Moon. Its quite logical.
2) If a man and woman were married and having the name „Miesiąć” we would normally say „Miesiąców”.
3) We also have: tysiąc (one thousand) -> tysięcy, but again if treated as surname: Tysiąców
4) Zając (a hare) -> zajęcy, form zająców is used less often
5) Similarly to pieniądz: wrzeciądz -> wrzeciędzy
6) Grudziądz - proper name, has no plural but if it had, it could be: Grudziędzy or Grudziądzów

Other examples:

  • mosiądz - mosiądzów (I found that in very old days one would use mosiędzy)
  • ksiądz - księży

This pattern seems to be very very old and currently out of further use. Moreover -ąc, -ądz endings are nearly unused when it comes to nouns other than gerunds.

June 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PVLSANS

Thanks a lot! I am glad to see that there's a pattern even though the Polish seem to have much structural recombination which leads to quite a number of exceptions. Referring to 1) you can see this in some other languages I can think of:

  • German: Mond > Monat
  • English: moon > month
  • Ancient Greek: mene > men
  • Ancient Hebrew: yareach > yerach
June 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
Mod
  • 1347

Look here: Tabele odmiany Jana Tokarskiego , position "Grupa deklinacyjna m II" (declension type male II).

In other words it is similar pattern as:

  • tysiąc (thousand) → tysięcy
  • biegacz (runner) → biegaczy
  • badacz ( researcher ) → badaczy
  • lekarz (doctor) → lekarzy
  • węgorz (eel) → węgorzy
  • wąż (snake) → węży (stem changed)
  • pieniądz (coin; money) → pieniędzy (stem changed)

And on that page you can find a detailed list of all types of declension including ALL the nuances and variations : Deklinacja - see:

A concise list of related flection endings with the number of declension type: Deklinacja rzeczowników

And here is an extensive list of nouns arranged by their type of declension, according by these declension types:

June 18, 2017
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