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  5. "That orange juice is bad."

"That orange juice is bad."

Translation:Der Orangensaft ist schlecht.

March 4, 2013

117 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/purplegamba

Isn't there a difference between "the" and "that" in German? If it said "The orange juice is bad." I would have used "Der...". But "Der" was not in the drop down menu of choices for "That" so I figured it was wrong. Someone explain?


[deactivated user]

    In spoken German, der/die/das can be used as demonstrative determiners as well. They have to be spoken with emphasis, though.

    http://goo.gl/qGsOT9


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertFren1

    Shouldn't "das" be accepted as well, though? I think in several other lessons it's been used as such, regardless of gender.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    That’s true for sentences such das Das ist ... where das is a pronoun for introducing something: Das ist ein Hund. Das ist eine Katze. Das ist ein Pferd. Das sind Tiere.

    But not when “that” comes before a noun: der Hund und die Katze und das Pferd und die Häuser “that dog and that cat and that horse and those houses”.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Devu

    how do you write ‘these houses' ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    how do you write ‘these houses' ?

    diese Häuser


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sean367543

    I don't remember "der",meaning "that"???


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arminmiry

    I agree with you . mostly it is "das" rather than "der"!!!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wahyuprata2

    Agree.. Some answers also mentioned that Das is That not only The


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaliHer

    But this is a writing exercise. Why is dieser orangensaft marked as incorrect? I also thought "the" and "that" were different words in German.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Why is dieser orangensaft marked as incorrect?

    Because dieser Orangensaft is “this orange juice”, not “that orange juice”. (Also, Orangensaft should be capitalised; it’s a noun.)

    I also thought "the" and "that" were different words in German.

    They are not.

    English split them up but German kept them the same.

    So e.g. die Katze can mean either “the cat” or “that cat”.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Batul94664

    Es ist klar, danke


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaurenG_23

    So 'dieser' only means 'this' and never 'that'? I have seen it used in other places to mean 'that', so I am a bit confused. Is it possible to clarify the confusion around the meaning of 'dieser'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    So 'dieser' only means 'this' and never 'that'?

    Pretty much, yes.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaliHer

    Thanks for the explanation - seems strange to have "this" but not "that", but native English speakers should never complain about the strangeness of other languages; it has plenty of it's own. Also, I know about the capitalization, but it is a nuisance to type and isn't marked wrong... yet! :-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thedr9wningman

    Including not using an apostrophe with the possessive neutral pronoun "it"! These little exceptions in English are almost as maddening as German!

    Re: Capitalisation: you're not learning a language to learn it incorrectly. Capitalise your German nouns! Judging capitalisation as "nuisance" seems like a very poor approach to learning something new. You may as well grab the soccer ball midfield and throw it at the goalie.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

    I thought that too, about capitalisation, until i decided to be good, and, actually, it is very little nuisance indeed.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marko976909

    Ich habe jetzt mit "dieser" geantwortet und Duo hat es akzeptiert.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martin79687

    At school, learning German, I was taught 'jener, jene, jenes' for 'that' and 'dieser,diese,dieses' for 'this'. So I typed 'jener Orangensaft', which was accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    At school, learning German, I was taught 'jener, jene, jenes' for 'that'

    Which century was your teacher born in? :)

    Most (educated) Germans will understand you, but those words are definitely not commonly used any more.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/judithmack

    I too was taught "jener /jene/jedes" for "that" when I was at school. It seems to have gone the same way as its English cognate "yon".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marilyn117447

    I reac THAT oj is bad. So i used DAS. I got it wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    That's because "Saft" is a masculine noun and therefor requires "der".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jrgen792736

    Ich habe in that eine Betonung gesehen, so schrieb ich "Dieser Orangensaft ist schlecht" Aber wenn ich mit dem Finger auf das Zeug zeige, kann ich sagen :"Der Orangensaft ist schlecht."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabnSaa

    Isn't this and the English to German forum? Please write in English so the rest of us can understand it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rose480467

    Betonung=emphasis. Surely either German or English could be understood by at least some people on an English-German course? I don't always understand when people write i nGaeilge in my Irish course but, if I'm interested, I check it in a dictionary.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    "Dieser Orangensaft ist schlecht"

    That would be "This orange juice is bad", i.e. referring to something close by.

    But the English sentence has "That orange juice is bad", i.e. referring to something further away.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/richardstephens

    I agree with most people on this discussion. I can't understand why "That" is suddenly translated as "Der". This is neither explained nor clear.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArmasUkkoM

    Well, the "normal" article is "der, die das" ~ "the" in English. "That" as I understand is a demonstrative pronoun, which equivilates "dieser, diese, dieses" or "jener, jene, jenes". I cannot explain, why they choose this translation, but I would have rather used "Dieser Orangensaft ist schlecht."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martin79687

    I wrote 'jener Orangensaft ' as the English was 'that'. It was accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chase-me

    New word for me. Love it, thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonJLazar

    (Das= This/That). How is Der becoming (that) in this context even if the word takes the article for the second word/part of a compound word. The article (Der) still would be (The) unless there is some Deutsch rule/colloquialism that isn't being explained. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cuiki

    Any particular reason you say Orangensaft with the plural form of "orange", but Apfelsaft with the singular of "apple"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erleichdaa

    I don't think it's really the plural of 'orange'. When you make compound words sometimes you add an 'n' in the middle and it's just a coincidence that it has the same form as the 'oranges'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kaynorski

    My guess is that it is easier to say Orangensaft than Orangesaft. Sometimes I have noticed some other times when compound words do this but I don't know any off the top of my head.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aadityaa

    Why is it Der Orangensaft? Orange is feminine and der is used for masculine words... I'm confused :/


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PedroNbreg1

    when you merge to words (orangen + saft) you shall use the gender of the last word (saft) Die Orangen + Der Saft = Der Orangensaft


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaoloPalon

    composite word: orange+saft the genre is determinated by the second word the masculine saft (der saft)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adriancarr16

    As far as i know "Der Orangensaft ist schlecht" means " the orange juice is bad" and " That orange juice is bad" means " Das Orangensaft is schlecht.....i have been studying german for 1 year and a half and this does not make sense that much to me.....Can somebody explain this to me,please?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/judithmack

    I think it has to be "der Orangensaft..." for "that orange juice ..."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AquaExecution

    I agree with most of the complaints here. The word "that" is very misleading.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pablovinen

    We can all protest at German Austrian and Swiss embassies and pelt them for their strange language.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/newdoc

    Why wouldn't that be translated as the orange juice is bad?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulioFdez-Prada

    What about "Dass Orangensaft ist schlecht"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    "Dass" and "das" are two different words. "Dass" is used to link sentences together, much like the English "that": I have heard that you are sick. -> Ich habe gehört, dass du krank bist.

    Using "dass" here doesn't make any sense.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xicotencatl

    That is what Google translate gives you, but is considered a wrong answer. I don't know if it is really acceptable in German


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gprobst

    "Dass" is the translation of "that" when used as a preposition, I think.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/termita

    "I know that it is late" -> "Ich weiß, dass es spät ist"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

    Not a preposition! A conjunction!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msmalcelj

    I think that the question should be: 'The orange juice...' as we are not on the right lever for 'Dieser' yet. Same for 'der' in a demonstrative role.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bob697931

    Whoever wrote these series of exercises knows how to teach language. My complements! When I was young and learning my mother tongue, my teachers would start out with simple declarative sentences and vocabulary, and after we got the hang of those, they would start to add more complicated language structures until we were fluent in our mother tongue. In many adult language courses attempting to teach adults a second language, very few attempts are made to introduce the language the way we were taught in our mother tongue. As adults, we are thrown into the deep end of the pool with comlex sentence structure, rules and rules, tables of articles, pronouns, irregular verbs etc. etc often before we have even a basic grasp of the vocabulary. In my humble opinion, if children were taught their native language the way adults are often taught their second language, we would have a world full of illiterate people. I offer my complements again! Good job, well done!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyuuketsukikurai

    Is Orangen Saft really wrong? Or does it absolutely have to be one word?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aadityaa

    I guess it has to be one word... especially since the gender of the word depends on the second term (saft) and not the first word (Orangen). So grammatically one viewing it as one word makes more sense.

    Hope this helped :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ashley378070

    That's what messed me up. Because it will accept Apfel saft and Apfelsaft


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    "Apfel saft" shouldn't be accepted (maybe as a typo, I don't know). In German, compound words are written together, as one word. It's how we get those long words the German language seems to be infamous for.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hunting4Tea

    Wouldn't it be correct to say "Der Orangensaft da ist schlecht"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    You could say that, it's very colloquial, though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lexx28312

    I thought, Der - the, Das - that. It was more than clear many exercises ago. Why Das doesn't mean That anymore?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    The -> Der, die, das. It depends on the context, you cannot simply translate articles 1:1 every time. "Das Saft" is the wrong gender, so it can never be right. Either you have to say "Der Saft, or "Dieser Saft" (which is how I would translate "This juice").


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sternulf

    I thought it should be "Jener Orangensaft ist slecht". "Der Orangensaft..." means "the orange juice". I thought when you say that in German, you use 'jener'. How else to distinguish between 'the orange juice' and 'that orange juice'? Can someone please explain?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    I thought when you say that in German, you use 'jener'.

    Haha, no.

    If you do that, you'll be understood, but it'll sound really weird. A bit like if you went around talking about "yon book". (Except that jenes Buch is more understandable to a German than "yon book" to your average English speaker.)

    jener, jene, jenes is used very little, especially in spoken language.

    How else to distinguish between 'the orange juice' and 'that orange juice'?

    In speech: by stress. The definite article is almost always unstressed, while demonstratives are almost always stressed.

    So Ich sehe das Buch. would be "I see the book." while Ich sehe das Buch. would be "I see that book."

    In writing, context is usually enough.

    Sometimes in speech people add hier and da to demonstratives to make it more specific: das Buch hier is "this book" and das Buch da is "that book". (We don't accept this on the Duolingo course.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeresaBarr374827

    apropos of nothing in the substantive discussion, but I do use the words "yon", "yonder" and "hither" in ordinary conversation, as do friends and family - though that may be local Yorkshire dialect, rather than accepted use of English. I also recall being told that there are substantial similarities between Northern English dialects and Germanic languages, which seems to be the case so far.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dryden_9

    In Texas, we often use 'yonder' (over there), such as 'That tree over yonder', or just 'yonder'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabnSaa

    Why is it not accepted in Duolingo if it's commonly used--and much easier to understand?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    I imagine it's considered too colloquial.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabnSaa

    So much for clarity.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dogukanlev

    if I said "Das ist Orangensaft schlecht" would it be wrong? I saw an example before that goes like "Das bin ich nicht" so I assumed...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    if I said "Das ist Orangensaft schlecht" would it be wrong?

    Yes. It would mean "That is orange juice bad" -- the "that" would be a demonstrative pronoun (acting instead of a noun) rather than a demonstrative determiner (before a noun) as in "that orange juice" = der Orangensaft.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JC.in-Florida

    So it is singular ORANGE but because of SAFT (joining two words as one) becomes OrangeNsaft, correct? So it is also BananaNsaft, ErdbeereNsaft, LimonateNsaft and Apfelsaft ... All songular, all DER for saft and in most cases an N bringing them together ...right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    So it is singular ORANGE but because of SAFT (joining two words as one) becomes OrangeNsaft, correct?

    Correct.

    So it is also BananaNsaft

    Nearly -- it's die Banane and der BananeNsaft.

    ErdbeereNsaft

    No :) You might expect that, but for some reason, it's Erdbeersaft.

    Similarly with Kirsche (cherry) which gives Kirschsaft, not *Kirschensaft.

    At least the combining form here is the same with -saft as it is with -marmelade, so strawberry jam and cherry jam are Erdbeermarmelade, Kirschmarmelade and orange marmalade is Orangenmarmelade.

    LimonateNsaft

    I'm not sure what is supposed to be.

    Do you mean lemon juice = Zitronensaft?

    and Apfelsaft

    Right.

    All songular, all DER for saft and in most cases an N bringing them together ...right?

    Right.

    -n- also in Tomatensaft, Karottensaft, Birnensaft. But die Frucht gives Fruchtsaft.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobSmull

    Interestingly, after the microphone misheard me (I had said "Dieser Orangensaft ist schlect", but it failed to recognize it), I was shown the translation "Dieser Orangensaft ist unrein".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.rkrp

    Can anyone please tell me, why "Der Orangensaft ist nicht gut" is not correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelKirk84

    Your sentence is a closer translation to "That orange juice is not good." Duo wanted a direct translation to "That orange juice is bad," which is "Der Orangensaft ist schlect."

    In spirit, you're saying the same thing, but the words are very different. Good/Gut and Bad/Schlecht are polar opposites.

    Hope that helps.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mallory153212

    Ok i havent figured out the difference between "They" and "she". they are spelled the same, but in my ears they sound pretty much the same! Any advice?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CuddleFish4

    Think of the word "bass" in English (silly example but it's the first thing I could think of.) It can mean an instrument, a deep sound, or a fish. But we rely on the context to know how it's being used. Same with sie. They sound the same but the conjugation of the verb and the context of the sentence will help you figure out whether it's she or they. Sie ist gut- she is good. Sie sind gut- they are good. As far as I can tell (I could be wrong though) the conjugation of the verbs for she and they will never be the same because she is singular and they is plural. So as long as you watch the verb, you'll be fine. ^.^


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Annaduck81

    That's not a great example, because 'bass' the fish is pronounced 'bas', but the instrument and the deep sound are pronounced 'base'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/case02

    How would you know to use Der as a determiner and not Die or Das?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Because you know that Orangensaft is a masculine word grammatically.

    (And you know that because you learned the word together with its gender, looking up the gender in a dictionary if necessary.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LenirD

    The attribution of gender in languages has little to do with anatomy, but I guess you know that by now. There are certain rules, but mostly we have to memorize the genders along with the nouns. My favorite app to practice the genders in German is Der Die Das (yellow background with a capital letter gothic D in the middle.) As said before in this discussion, compound words have the gender of the word placed at its end, in this case, der Saft.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vaibhav821998

    It seems accusative sentence. So why not "den" be used over here? Sorry if I'm incorrect in my grammatical knowledge. Please correct me.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    It seems accusative sentence.

    There's no such thing as "an accusative sentence".

    Sentences as a whole are not in any particular case -- cases are there to show the roles that parts of the sentence play.

    For example, the subject of a verb is in the nominative case, the direct object of a verb is (almost always) in the accusative case, prepositions require a particular case, and so on.

    der Orangensaft is the subject of the verb ist, and so it is in the nominative case.

    What about this sentence looks accusative to you?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gregory146754

    So it's impossible to say That in this case. You're just saying the


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterHagger

    Reading all these comments has been instructive. I congratulate Mr Mizinamo for his clarity and endless patience


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nisha797362

    Hmm I used "schlimm" rather than "schlecht" to vary it up (and because it was on the dropdown of answer choices). It was marked incorrect. I have taken screenshots. Anyone know why this would be the case?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Hmm I used "schlimm" rather than "schlecht" to vary it up (and because it was on the dropdown of answer choices). It was marked incorrect.

    Yes. Orange juice can't be schlimm.

    schlimm can be "morally bad" or "severe" (as of an accident or other effect), but that's not something that applies to food.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndyCantre1

    "schlimm ... not something that applies to food"

    I'm not so sure. On occasion there has been that mistake in the dinner pot that just should never have happened. (pardon my poor grammar here but: Spargel mit Specksalz - schlechte Idee)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hobbyfarmer178

    could dass orangensaft ist schlecht be also used as well as der orangensaft ist schlecht ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    could dass orangensaft ist schlecht be also used

    No.

    dass is a conjunction, which joins a subordinate clause to a main clause, as in "he told me that he was coming".

    It's not the "that" which you use before a noun.

    (Also, please pay attention to the correct spelling of Orangensaft: it should start with a capital O.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frank633327

    This is a trick question and is undermining learning. Please throw it out.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    What's so tricky about it?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frank633327

    "demonstrative determiners" have not been introduced yet. Only "Das" has been introduced as "that" so far.

    Thanks for commenting. I probably didn't need to post (there was a good explanation at the top) but sometimes I drink whilst learning.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    It's wrong

    Error reports are welcome, but to be helpful, please be as specific as possible.

    Which sentence are you talking about that has an error? Please quote the entire sentence. Just saying "it" is not helpful.

    Which part of it is wrong? Why?

    What should the correct version be?

    Thank you!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulaSchil5

    This was confusing as Dieser for that was not a choice. Der is the...you have been using das for that or this...so das was the best choice.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    Remember that there are three grammatical genders in German, so the translation for "that" has to agree with the gender of the noun. In this case, "Saft" is a masculine noun, so "that" means "der" in this case.

    Confusing? Yes. But don't worry, you'll get the hang of it eventually. Plus, people will still understand you, even if you mix up the grammatical genders from time to time. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaliseMatnik

    Very confusing


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thefoot1998

    If you were to instead say "Dem Orangensaft ist schlecht" would it mean "the orange juice is bad" as in the orange juice is expired versus "Der Orangensaft ist schlecht" meaning the orange juice tastes bad but there is nothing wrong with it otherwise.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    It would mean "the orange juice is sick", as in "it's going to throw up".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Odettejd

    I did not know that "der" could mean "that"!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    I did not know that "der" could mean "that"!

    And now you do :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mLf941

    Der is more appropriate as far as the German i have learnt so far


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bao925619

    Can I say: "Dieser Orangensaft ist schlecht."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Can I say: "Dieser Orangensaft ist schlecht."

    dieser Orangensaft is "this orange juice", not "that orange juice" (= der Orangensaft).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/juniperfarm

    Why not 'das Orange' for 'that orange'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    Wrong grammatical gender. First of all, "Orange" (the fruit) is of feminine gender. Second, compound words get the grammatical gender of the last compound. In this case it's "Saft", which is masculine.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Why not 'das Orange' for 'that orange'?

    "that orange" is not a constituent of the sentence -- it's not something that you can translate on its own.

    The subject of the verb "is" is "that orange juice" -- that is the phrase that you have to translate as a unit, into der Orangensaft.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kumar.1989

    Irrespective of the gender, i thought Das was used for that. Why is it der suddenly now?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan_D_13

    Because "that" does translate to "der", "die" or "das", depending on the context it is used in.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Irrespective of the gender, i thought Das was used for that.

    That is true when it's a demonstrative pronoun (standing instead of a noun) when you are introducing something new:

    • Das ist ein Hund.
    • Das ist eine Katze.
    • Das ist ein Pferd.
    • Das sind Tiere.

    But when it's a demonstrative determiner (standing in front of a noun), the word needs to agree in gender with the following noun:

    • Der Hund ist groß. "That dog is large."
    • Die Katze ist klein. "That cat is small."
    • Das Pferd ist schnell. "That horse is fast."
    • Die Tiere sind langsam. "Those animals are slow."
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